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Cycling BC AGM - the state of racing in BC

Oct. 5, 2012, 1 p.m.
Posts: 7566
Joined: March 7, 2004

cut and pasted from another thread

The Cycling BC AGM is next weekend. FVMBA will be there.
http://cyclingbc.net/annual-meeting/

tell you right now WORCA will have no interest in Cycling BC, unless they lower their 'administration' fee by about $25 a head.

Wouldn't the AGM be the perfect place to tell them that?

I'm not sure what "administration fee" you're talking about?

WORCA isn't a member, they wouldn't be there. CBC's insurance fee per rider includes a hefty admin fee. Right now worca pays $11/member for their insurance, CBC wants 30+ if I recall correctly. at [HTML_REMOVED]1800 members this year that's a huge amount of money not going to club activities like the youth program and trail maintenance for little to no extra value from CBC. That's the issue. I've heard some other allegations about CBC conduct in regards to worca that makes me want to give them the double middle finger too.

I know CBC works for some clubs, but it doesn't work for a bunch of large ones out there, and all I'm saying is that it will be very hard to get everyone on the same page with insurance at this point in time, not that it isn't an admirable goal.

Sorry to derail your toonie thread, Shirk, maybe this should get moved to it's own dedicated thread.

Oct. 5, 2012, 1:05 p.m.
Posts: 7566
Joined: March 7, 2004

FVMBA is insured through the IMBA insurance. FVMBA is also a Cycling BC affiliated club. The cost of that affiliation is about $75 for the whole club. If members want to participate in races, race license is up to them. They can purchase a club affiliated license for $36, or a citizen license, or a full UCI license. Most racers have at least a citizen license anyways. Therefore they just need a club membership which is $20.

The Cycling BC AGM is open to the general public…you dont need to be part of an affiliated club to attend. I just think if people want to see changes in the way things are done, thats where they need to say it.

Oct. 5, 2012, 2 p.m.
Posts: 22
Joined: May 21, 2007

cut and pasted from another thread

The Cycling BC AGM is next weekend. FVMBA will be there.
http://cyclingbc.net/annual-meeting/

Wouldn't the AGM be the perfect place to tell them that?

I'm not sure what "administration fee" you're talking about?

The AGM would be the perfect place to assist CBC with the proper guidance that they have been neglecting. I know of several people who tried as individuals but now is the time for a collective movement to point the ship back in the right direction; AWAY FROM THE ROCKS!

The high fees that CBC wants to charge are not valid, don't listen to them. To take out a FULL Race license in Saskatchewan (a FULL UCI/CCA race license) is under $80. That's right, you suckers (I'm one of those suckers that bought a full BC Race license) are being charged double for insurance. Once for Insurance and then the second time for what, administration of that insurance charge??? Sure, you won't rank in the BC Cup Points but really, what is that worth? A 3 race xc series that had only 1 rider at the elite championships??? King of the ???? If you want competition, do a grass roots race in Squamish, is it any coincidence that the top BC Pros only race those vents instead of BC Cups, sure there is a cash issue but then again CBC leaves that up to the race organizer anyways. How is it that the best competition comes out of toonie races in Squamish/Whistler, Grass Roots Racing in Squamish/Pemberton and the Island Cup. None of these events are BC Cups, is that a good spend of energy on CBC's part? Is the BC Cup a top shelf series? It would seem that it is backwards and the only successes are from individual clubs proceeding without CBC help.

Check to make sure whether you need to be a CBC Member, as I believe that you need to be to attend the AGM. This is our last chance to fix this. I want to see a race calendar that promotes grass roots racing and them possibly we can have a championship race were the winner in each category ain't by default. Is this possible to award a medal in a category when that rider is the only one?

So, let's tell CBC to stop spending money on telling people how great they and have them focus on doing great things, they can if we give them the focus the so need.

So, for the AGM. Put your hand up, who's going? Thinking about doing a race that day, or just a casual ride, think again, you want great things sometimes you have to go and make it happen.

See you all at the AGM.

Oct. 5, 2012, 2:50 p.m.
Posts: 549
Joined: Sept. 2, 2010

I want to see a race calendar that promotes grass roots racing and them possibly we can have a championship race were the winner in each category ain't by default. Is this possible to award a medal in a category when that rider is the only one?

Easy there - if they didn't I would never have collected all those shiny bronze and silver medals.

Oct. 5, 2012, 4:22 p.m.
Posts: 12
Joined: Nov. 24, 2011

To shed a little light on a few of the things brought up….

How many races does Alberta put on? Very few - many of their riders come to BC to race, our Road spring series is very popular with AB and our DH scene is also popular. Our weather is unique and allows us to start the road season early and our DH scene…well it exists in comparison to AB. I would think that the fee is higher in BC because there are far more races (CX, DH, BMX, Road, Track, even Trials) in BC. What type of insurance does AB provide? $10 Million liability like CBC…nope it doesn't. CBC has one of the best insurance coverages for riders, coaches, mechanics, commissaires, race organizers, etc. in the country.

Further onto that, race organizers are needed to organize races…CBC isn't an event organizer. They depend on volunteers and clubs to do the events, FVMBA is an awesome example. So…FVMBA is the example here. You pay a club fee to FVMBA which is their fee (administration, card printing, card mailing, beer fund, etc.), you then purchase an associate membership ($37), CTZ license ($47) or UCI license ($141) and select FVMBA as your affiliate or club - this makes you an insured member. FVMBA pays only $10 for an insurance policy from CBC because their races/events are members only. That's pretty damn cheap considering the level of insurance you're getting. To host a non-member event where joe schmoe can come and race you pay ~$300 - this allows joe schmoe to purchase a one day insurance ticket for $10. That's a little more pricey, but usually regional/provincial/national races or races with high rider turnouts like the Nimby Fifty or the Sunshine coaster opt for this as it's financially viable.

Anyone can attend the AGM and voice their opinion, only licensed members (Citizen or UCI) are allowed to vote. Going to the AGM and telling CBC they need to do a better job is a terrific idea. However…an even better idea is contributing ideas and your services. To many people bitch and complain that shit sucks and that CBC sucks…terrific…how do they suck. Let's be constructive people.

Oct. 5, 2012, 4:34 p.m.
Posts: 3634
Joined: Feb. 22, 2003

Over the years the Island Cup has gone with Cycling BC, over to GRMBA and then back to Cycling BC. The value for dollar compared to the coverages of other insurance companies was worth it. This year we needed to add fire protection to our policy for the DH Race on Prevost and Cycling BC stepped up and made it happen.

The coverage which was "cheaper" via GRMBA was unable to touch the level of coverage for a broad selection of events that happen under the Island Cup and each club's hosted events.

Yes it could be cheaper, and I know there are some additional components in the insurance currently which could be removed to save money, but overall it's a pretty good system for our smaller Island Clubs. Between the Island Cup and Cross on the Rock, we cover over half the racing events that happen on the Cycling BC calendar.

We also have to deal with Private Landowners for most of our events, which changes the complexity of our events compared to most other jurisdictions in BC.

There are opportunities though, look at all the Gran Fondo's, BC Bike Races, other large events that don't involve Cycling BC. Were Cycling BC to come up with a program for the average rider to get some basic cyclist specific benefits, the membership could increase many multiples of times. I think this is a lost opportunity for Cycling BC.

Unfortunately I don't think I can make it to the AGM - it's not exactly cheap to come from the Island…

Play : Comox Valley Mountain Biking - www.cvmtb.com

Oct. 5, 2012, 4:38 p.m.
Posts: 11
Joined: July 8, 2011

Tom,

As a recent Worca Board Member and race organizer I should clarify what Flip expressed (although I agree with him totally) and shed some light on insurance at least from my perspective. As things stand right now WORCA would never consider CBC as our insurer. Plain and simple too expensive. They have some extra perks but we do not deem them solid enough value. They tried to twist our arm a bit this summer with a convoluted plan to switch to them but it is not going to happen with their current fee structure. It would take too much money away from our trails program.

There is a lot of talk about common insurance or cross-over policies that allow racers from different clubs to race in each other's races. I can see why Shirk wants that for the Shore. They are trying to get numbers back. However if he puts on cool events (which I'm pretty sure he will) the numbers will come back. The beauty of each club sanctioning their own events is the most money possible goes back into trails. I have talked to some SORCA folks about this recently. For me to be a full member of WORCA and SORCA is currently $100. This past year that would have allowed me to race in ALOT (about 30 toonies and at least 15 DH races) of events for $2 plus a bunch of fun special events. And I would have donated around $75 combined to the clubs for trails and other programs. Small fee to pay for how much fun all those events are and how great the trails are. And the money is not lost on admin fees, etc. Some will argue that that is expensive and joining each club to do only a race or two is alot (although they do offer one event membership for $25 at WORCA)but I would counter that it is the best deal ever..especially with how the money is spent. For someone in the city to come up and do just one Loonie or Phat Wed costs $27. $11ish goes to the insurer, $1 to winner of race and $15 to trails plus you prob get dinner and a beer…so I don't understand why the need for a common insurance.

Oct. 5, 2012, 5:37 p.m.
Posts: 137
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Tom,

As a recent Worca Board Member and race organizer I should clarify what Flip expressed (although I agree with him totally) and shed some light on insurance at least from my perspective. As things stand right now WORCA would never consider CBC as our insurer. Plain and simple too expensive. They have some extra perks but we do not deem them solid enough value. They tried to twist our arm a bit this summer with a convoluted plan to switch to them but it is not going to happen with their current fee structure. It would take too much money away from our trails program.

There is a lot of talk about common insurance or cross-over policies that allow racers from different clubs to race in each other's races. I can see why Shirk wants that for the Shore. They are trying to get numbers back. However if he puts on cool events (which I'm pretty sure he will) the numbers will come back. The beauty of each club sanctioning their own events is the most money possible goes back into trails. I have talked to some SORCA folks about this recently. For me to be a full member of WORCA and SORCA is currently $100. This past year that would have allowed me to race in ALOT (about 30 toonies and at least 15 DH races) of events for $2 plus a bunch of fun special events. And I would have donated around $75 combined to the clubs for trails and other programs. Small fee to pay for how much fun all those events are and how great the trails are. And the money is not lost on admin fees, etc. Some will argue that that is expensive and joining each club to do only a race or two is alot (although they do offer one event membership for $25 at WORCA)but I would counter that it is the best deal ever..especially with how the money is spent. For someone in the city to come up and do just one Loonie or Phat Wed costs $27. $11ish goes to the insurer, $1 to winner of race and $15 to trails plus you prob get dinner and a beer…so I don't understand why the need for a common insurance.

bang on, Tony…I was a WORCA/PVTA/NSMBA member this/past year(s) (and about to be Nelson CC member) and certainly don't feel like I paid too much money. I hardly ever ride in Squish, although I should probably still at least drop for their trail pass.

Oct. 5, 2012, 7:41 p.m.
Posts: 7566
Joined: March 7, 2004

Just to clarify…one of the driving factors behind FVMBA's races is the desire to increase membership. That's why our races require FVMBA membership ($20) as well as a cycling bc license of some sort. We're in a different boat than WORCA or SORCA in that the majority of people attending our races live in the valley or lower mainland and already have race licenses. Having "cross over" insurance would defeat the purpose. And yes, it costs $10 to put on a grass roots race or series of races through cycling bc that are "members only" as well as an annual fee of $75 to be an affiliated club.

Oct. 5, 2012, 10:19 p.m.
Posts: 22
Joined: May 21, 2007

Over the years the Island Cup has gone with Cycling BC, over to GRMBA and then back to Cycling BC. The value for dollar compared to the coverages of other insurance companies was worth it. This year we needed to add fire protection to our policy for the DH Race on Prevost and Cycling BC stepped up and made it happen.

The coverage which was "cheaper" via GRMBA was unable to touch the level of coverage for a broad selection of events that happen under the Island Cup and each club's hosted events.

Yes it could be cheaper, and I know there are some additional components in the insurance currently which could be removed to save money, but overall it's a pretty good system for our smaller Island Clubs. Between the Island Cup and Cross on the Rock, we cover over half the racing events that happen on the Cycling BC calendar.

We also have to deal with Private Landowners for most of our events, which changes the complexity of our events compared to most other jurisdictions in BC.

There are opportunities though, look at all the Gran Fondo's, BC Bike Races, other large events that don't involve Cycling BC. Were Cycling BC to come up with a program for the average rider to get some basic cyclist specific benefits, the membership could increase many multiples of times. I think this is a lost opportunity for Cycling BC.

Unfortunately I don't think I can make it to the AGM - it's not exactly cheap to come from the Island…

Just to be clear. In 2011 CBC, IMBA and SORCA were all insured by Oasis Insurance out of Saskatchewan. YOu need fire insurance, you can call them. The extra insurance cost for CBC is for participant to participant insurance and your MSP should cover that.

Test of Metal Events uses Oasis Insurance and the same land use issues come up, private, Municipal and Crown Land, no problem as the Test of Metal Events are covered by this same insurance that CBC used.

The costs yu save could be going into your timing budgets.

The Grmba fiasco was because of sly salesman, don't let that happen again.

Oct. 5, 2012, 11:30 p.m.
Posts: 3634
Joined: Feb. 22, 2003

Just to be clear. In 2011 CBC, IMBA and SORCA were all insured by Oasis Insurance out of Saskatchewan. YOu need fire insurance, you can call them. The extra insurance cost for CBC is for participant to participant insurance and your MSP should cover that.

Test of Metal Events uses Oasis Insurance and the same land use issues come up, private, Municipal and Crown Land, no problem as the Test of Metal Events are covered by this same insurance that CBC used.

The costs you save could be going into your timing budgets.

The Grmba fiasco was because of sly salesman, don't let that happen again.

We have 8 clubs which contribute to the Island Cup. Each club pays CBC and sets their own membership rates to fund their own projects. They can set their own club events, host an Island Cup Event and if their members desire have the ability to join in with other CBC events.

Costs for each race is minimal as we split the commercial insurance policy for all events. Revenue from events is significant and as grass roots events the Cycling BC fees are minimal.

If we each wanted to purchase our own insurance it would be not only confusing to users but also more cost prohibitive than our current setup.

Where could we save a lot more money switching to Oasis alone?

Play : Comox Valley Mountain Biking - www.cvmtb.com

Oct. 5, 2012, 11:34 p.m.
Posts: 3634
Joined: Feb. 22, 2003

fyi - our commercial policy this year was through Sutton, not Oasis.

http://www.suttonsportscover.com/

Play : Comox Valley Mountain Biking - www.cvmtb.com

Oct. 6, 2012, 11:12 a.m.
Posts: 22
Joined: May 21, 2007

We have 8 clubs which contribute to the Island Cup. Each club pays CBC and sets their own membership rates to fund their own projects. They can set their own club events, host an Island Cup Event and if their members desire have the ability to join in with other CBC events.

Costs for each race is minimal as we split the commercial insurance policy for all events. Revenue from events is significant and as grass roots events the Cycling BC fees are minimal.

If we each wanted to purchase our own insurance it would be not only confusing to users but also more cost prohibitive than our current setup.

Where could we save a lot more money switching to Oasis alone?

Well, a couple of things are wrong here:

on toms #9 post it may be missing the point of growth, because a majority of your members are already cbc members you are not looking to grow the club and add new members but rather forcing new members to spend another 35$ to do events

11 ski freak take those 8 clubs put them under one umbrella called the island mtn bike race series pay oasis $10 and let each club run as you want them to. then the members pay the individual club fee and the clubs still maintain autonomy and the members all can save 25$ and the clubs save the cbc membership fee. This is a great way to generate revenue and put money back into the local trails.

Oasis is an example and not a must.

Oct. 6, 2012, 11:51 a.m.
Posts: 3634
Joined: Feb. 22, 2003

By letting each club affiliate with cycling BC, we remove the need to setup another level of governance of a island club group.

Since its all private land here, money for trails is not a focus of club spending. More people just offer their time and some funds from local shops is diverted for building supplies and tools.

Play : Comox Valley Mountain Biking - www.cvmtb.com

Oct. 6, 2012, 6:35 p.m.
Posts: 3634
Joined: Feb. 22, 2003

Interesting email today…

Cycling BC May Newsletter

Dear Members

Some of you may be aware of a number of issues that have occurred within Cycling BC over the last few days. A lot of statements, not all of them completely factually accurate, have been made and circulated to various people, who have in turn responded to these and further circulated them. While it would be inappropriate for me to go into any of the specific details, I do want to let you know that the Board of Cycling BC is actively engaged in working to resolve these issues in the best interests of cycling in British Columbia.

Some action has already been taken, and as soon as the Annual General Meeting has occurred, there will be a meeting between senior staff and board members to determine a path forward that continues to see the sport of cycling grow in this province through the best use of all its resources.

Cycling BC has been incredibly successful on many fronts over the last years due to the amazing work of all its athletes, sponsors, staff and volunteers, and I am extremely grateful to all of you for dedication and commitment.

As a Board we are committed to resolving these, and all other, issues that we face in order to continue our growth, and be able to provide a world class sport to its membership.

Thank you once again for your time, dedication, and commitment.

Best wishes

Wayne Pomario
President: Cycling British Columbia

Play : Comox Valley Mountain Biking - www.cvmtb.com

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