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The South Chilcotin

Oct. 21, 2015, 3:47 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: April 8, 2015

In case you haven't seen enough footage from the South Chilcotins this summer, here's some more pretty things to look at from our ride-in/ride-out, camp-in-the-alpine, ridge-line-fueled adventures:

https://vimeo.com/142894217

Oct. 21, 2015, 5:19 p.m.
Posts: 1172
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

it isn't all ride-able. hardly. and it isn't there to be 'shredded'. beautiful filming though. the landscape speaks for itself of course.

commence the flaming.

Oct. 21, 2015, 11:15 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: April 8, 2015

Thanks, although I attribute the beauty of the footage to the location, and less the videography skills - it's difficult to point a camera anywhere there and not end up with something nice ;)

As for the rideability of the alpine, a surprising amount is an absolute blast to ride once you get your bike to the top. True there are lots of ridgelines with sections you'll have to negotiate off the bike, and whether or not you define that as "rideable" is up to you. Every trip we take in that area, we run into people that simply haven't ever thought about riding the trails and routes in the alpine and connecting different zones together via alpine traverses. That's not to say that not many people do it, but the vast majority of riders there seem to stay on the valley trails. Obviously everyone makes their own decisions about what constitutes "rideable" terrain, but I always try to encourage people to go explore outside the basic Gun Creek/High Trail/Tyaughton laps, as there is so much more to be seen there. I worked around Taseko Lake years ago doing mineral exploration, and west of Spruce Lake Protected Area there are peaks beyond peaks beyond ridgelines that are begging to be explored and ridden, all interconnected by goat trails if nothing else that are very rideable in my eyes.

I agree that nothing is "there to be shredded" - you must have misheard that. That kind of hubris is what can get a person into really bad situations in the backcountry. We respect the mountains, appreciate them, and leave them with humility. It's difficult not to feel immensely connected to the landscape on a technical, high speed, exposed ridge-line descent.

Oct. 21, 2015, 11:19 p.m.
Posts: 10077
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Just so you know, riding and videos like this are going to get mountain bikes kicked out of the park.

Oct. 21, 2015, 11:24 p.m.
Posts: 10077
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Maybe take a read through this to take a look what are the BC Parks concerns:
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/bcparks/planning/mgmtplns/lillooet/background-documents/big-creek_south-chilcoltin/sc-mtns-big-crk-draft-mp.pdf?v=1445494971765

Pages 18, 33 [HTML_REMOVED] 51

Oct. 21, 2015, 11:29 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: July 9, 2015

oh boy. Do yourself a favour. If you enjoy the area educate yourself about the current regulatory climate and delete this video. Delete all your footage. Pretend you never ever shot or edited anything like this.

Oct. 22, 2015, 11:25 a.m.
Posts: 642
Joined: June 8, 2005

Just so you know, riding and videos like this are going to get mountain bikes kicked out of the park.

oh boy. Do yourself a favour. If you enjoy the area educate yourself about the current regulatory climate and delete this video. Delete all your footage. Pretend you never ever shot or edited anything like this.

I have done a couple of trips through Tyax and loved riding up in the area and hope to get out there again.

I didn't watch the entire video, but did see the part where they were riding down a hill that was a total scree slope. Not trying to stir things up, but genuinely asking, what damage is caused by someone riding down a slope like that. Wouldn't wind and water erosion more of a factor.

Oct. 22, 2015, 11:33 a.m.
Posts: 141
Joined: July 31, 2009

Not trying to stir things up, but genuinely asking, what damage is caused by someone riding down a slope like that. Wouldn't wind and water erosion more of a factor.

If you make a rut from the tires then you create a channel for the water to flow down. The water can then make the rut deeper and cause more erosion.

Oct. 22, 2015, 11:42 a.m.
Posts: 137
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

If you make a rut from the tires then you create a channel for the water to flow down. The water can then make the rut deeper and cause more erosion.

that and aesthetically it's a huge scar on our reputation. This is something that's been identified time and time again by parks reps and mtb opponents as something they specifically call out mountain bikers about. highly verboten, especially in photo or video shared form.

Oct. 22, 2015, 12:01 p.m.
Posts: 351
Joined: March 4, 2013

yup. media like this just provides more fuel for the anti-mtb people.

not what you want when bike access to the area is already under heavy scrutiny and the threat of being restricted.

the specific encouragement that others go out and do this sort of riding also takes things a step further. that's kind of the last thing anyone should be doing.

Oct. 22, 2015, 12:10 p.m.
Posts: 10077
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

oh boy. Do yourself a favour. If you enjoy the area educate yourself about the current regulatory climate and delete this video. Delete all your footage. Pretend you never ever shot or edited anything like this.

Looks like it is down now:
https://vimeo.com/wildlandmedia

Edit: Trailer still linked on this site though:
http://www.pikore.com/wildland.media
And Instagram: http://www.online-instagram.com/user/wildland.media/1637555102

Oct. 22, 2015, 12:14 p.m.
Posts: 5738
Joined: May 28, 2005

+1 to everyone suggesting this is not the kind of activity or imagery mountain bikers interested in preserving access to wilderness areas want to be broadcasting

but beyond that, does anyone actually enjoy the kind of riding features in this video: slowly straightlining down moderate, loose slopes while dragging their rear brakes? i know i don't, and it doesn't even look fun. happy to stick to the boring, played out valley trails :)

"Nobody really gives a shit that you don't like the thing that you have no firsthand experience with." Dave

Oct. 22, 2015, 12:25 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: April 8, 2015

Maybe take a read through this to take a look what are the BC Parks concerns:
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/bcparks/planning/mgmtplns/lillooet/background-documents/big-creek_south-chilcoltin/sc-mtns-big-crk-draft-mp.pdf?v=1445494971765

Pages 18, 33 [HTML_REMOVED] 51

Thanks for the link. I've pulled the video for the time being, as I feel that there is some dialogue I've missed on this topic. As someone that tries to stay, if not engaged (although I did take part in the public consultation process), at least cognisant of the issues of our sport, I'm definitely willing to pay attention when the community speaks up or new information comes to light.

In order not to seem like a total ignorant fool and try to get some of the pitchforks put aside for a moment, here's a bit about my train of thought that has led me to see this riding as the least impactful there can be in the park in my ignorance of the ongoing philosophical debates about park conduct (DISCLAIMER: that being said, after paying attention to the specific management goals in the report, I'll definitely alter my conduct until the research on impacts is complete and they've decided on a code). This comes from an informed background: I work doing conservation ecology research, much of which relates to the cumulative impacts of human disturbance on landscapes, so thinking about disturbance and ecological impacts are generally foremost in my mind. The last I heard and read, there were 3 main issues regarding mountain bikers in the park: user group interactions, erosion, and wildlife/ecosystem impacts. One of the reasons that I prefer riding the trails and routes in the alpine is that it avoids more or less every one of these issues. There are very few other users up there, and when you do run into one, you see them a kilometer away, so there is no coming around a corner and spooking a horse as is common in the valleys. The trail conditions up there are either crumbling strata or loose, particulate rock, both of which are far more resilient to the forces bikes apply to them, especially when wet, than the packed dirt and clay of the valley trails. As far as wildlife interaction is concerned, spending as much time as possible on the alpine routes is by far the best practice. Wildlife diversity and richness are highest in the lowland ecosystems because elevation, as everywhere, is a ubiquitous correlate of those measures. In fact, if you look at the map on grizzly habitat in that report, more or less all of the core habitat, as well as the sensitive wetlands, are located in the valley bottoms or sub-alpine. Apart from flocking birds and marmots, I have yet to personally see any megafauna in the alpine, although I do know a few people that have seen wolves and grizzlies using the passes and I know better than to trust even my own anecdotal evidence. As far as scree ecosystems go, areas with the smallest particle size are the most dynamic on that landscape, and host the least life. As particle size increases, there is more and more stability in the landscape, making colonization possible and increasing the biomass that can be supported. By sticking to routes on ridgelines with the smallest particle size, which incidentally make the best riding, biological impacts are minimized as well.

I'm sure all of these ecological factors are well-integrated into the planning process, but there seems to be a big emphasis in the report on "encouraging activities that are compatible with a slower pace to allow time for the appreciation and experience of park values", which I was ignorant of. This seems like a subjective philosophical argument, but one that I completely respect - I'm sure the user experience is very different today on Gun Creek than it was traditionally, and if those traditional experiences are ones that the management committee want to uphold, that's completely understandable. At the current time, there is no mandate for moving slowly in the park, so I was unaware that it was an important issue under discussion and we would definitely take that into account if I'd known otherwise. In my mind, the best way to avoid conflict is to be polite and likable to other trail users and to be cognisant of the impacts you have on the landscape while trying to minimize them. To me, these values are validated when I return year after year to the same alpine routes and trails and the winter's precipitation has erased all signs that you ever passed there before, whereas in the valleys I see the same blown out corner or the same de-comissioned trail through a swampy section that I've always seen there. Without additional knowledge of the political climate of an area, this is the mentality I default to, as I have previously done in the South Chilcotins. Do you know if there is an updated or implemented management plan anywhere yet? It would be useful to know what their finalized mandates and park policies are.

Oct. 22, 2015, 12:26 p.m.
Posts: 4951
Joined: Nov. 25, 2002

+2. i had my first trip into the area this summer; i certainly hope to return. it's a special place, and we're privileged to be allowed access. please don't screw things up for us.

Oct. 22, 2015, 12:38 p.m.
Posts: 10077
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Do you know if there is an updated or implemented management plan anywhere yet?

Nope.

Latest document from BC Parks about South Chilcotin Mountains Park, and other parks in the area:
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/bcparks/planning/mgmtplns/lillooet/summary-of-public-input-to-lillooet-area-draftmp.pdf?v=1445542558795

As they move through the process, other documents will be posted here:
http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/bcparks/planning/mgmtplns/lillooet/lillooet_mp.html

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