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COVID-19

Sept. 8, 2021, 7:25 p.m.
Posts: 15460
Joined: Dec. 30, 2002

Also not implying xxx'er went to a uni or community College on his own merit.

Sept. 8, 2021, 7:26 p.m.
Posts: 1750
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: tungsten

You the one with blinders on.

My guess would be if we compared the links we shared that you'd have a much higher percentage of sharing links that have questionable accuracy and/or contain misinformation/falsehoods. So while I like and share much of your stance on things like the environment and public welfare, I think it tends to be a bit extreme and is therefore prone to mistakes at times. So it's not blinders that I have on, but some justifiable apprehension about the validity of links you post.

Sept. 8, 2021, 7:42 p.m.
Posts: 2067
Joined: April 25, 2003

Posted by: KenN

Posted by: tashi

Posted by: KenN

Possible, but when one already knows that the source of "new information" is dodgy, then there's a low percentage on the likelihood of getting anything meaningful, so why waste the time going down that rabbit hole?

So, which part of The Intercept article was, in your words, “fake news”?

You're twisting my statement into something I didn't say. I said that I don't click on RT links out of principle, since I already know that it is massively skewed toward fake news and Putin propaganda. That means I didn't follow through to find it was hosting an Intercept report. I've made no claims about the veracity of Intercept reporting.

You said the RT report was fake news. 

The RT report was simply regurgitating The Intercept article, thereby you called the news contained within “fake”.

But you didn’t read or check any of it it seems. 

I’m sure this story will be reported more sources soon. Corporate right-wing media is currently lapping it up, corporate left-wing media will follow along soon, that’s how you sell papers.

Sept. 8, 2021, 9:01 p.m.
Posts: 6017
Joined: April 10, 2005

I don't think all people who are not yet vaccinated are so-called anti-vaxxer extremists. Some of them just have concerns about getting something injected into them that will last a life time. Perhaps it's too soon for them and they think all the vaccines have not been proven long-term etc. Plus, some folks have health concerns that make it unwise to get jabbed. My aged aunt was told she should not get it.

Sept. 9, 2021, 9:51 a.m.
Posts: 14408
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

Posted by: Stuminator

I don't think all people who are not yet vaccinated are so-called anti-vaxxer extremists. Some of them just have concerns about getting something injected into them that will last a life time. Perhaps it's too soon for them and they think all the vaccines have not been proven long-term etc. Plus, some folks have health concerns that make it unwise to get jabbed. My aged aunt was told she should not get it.

Fair - there's probably 5(?) categories. (in BC where it is widely available, for free, on demand)

1 - Anti-vaxxers. Never going to get it, lost cause. Vocal Minority.

2 - Unable for legitimate health reasons. These are the folks that the rest of us protect by getting our own shots.  Also a small percentage.

3 - The Apathetic - just haven't bothered for a variety of reasons, but aren't opposed. This is the group that the vax passport targets by providing an incentive

4 - The hesitant and/or fearful - often trot out anti-vax FUD such as"not being proven long-term" as rationale. This group needs to be encouraged to stop 'doing their own research' on twitter and facebook, get to a qualified doctor and have a conversation about the actual facts of vaccines and this one in particular.

5 - Kids - We need a safe and effective vaccine for the under 12s.

..

Personally, I've run out of patience for anyone not listening to scientists and scientific consensus at this point, they are just prolonging this for everyone else.


 Last edited by: Couch_Surfer on Sept. 9, 2021, 9:53 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Sept. 9, 2021, 10:11 a.m.
Posts: 77
Joined: Feb. 2, 2021

Posted by: Couch_Surfer

4 - The hesitant and/or fearful - often trot out anti-vax FUD such as"not being proven long-term" as rationale. This group needs to be encouraged to stop 'doing their own research' on twitter and facebook, get to a qualified doctor and have a conversation about the actual facts of vaccines and this one in particular.

I've been struggling with my peer group on this. With our access to information, we really need to have a serious conversation about the Dunning-Kruger effect. I had a conversation with my buddy who is a heavy duty mechanic the other day via messenger. He was sending me links to a few studies 'proving that masks don't work', I sort of shrugged it off and said 'I don't understand these studies conclusions, I'm just going to trust public health officials', which he sort of took as a victory, not recognizing that HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THEM EITHER. I asked him whether he thought an immunologist could just walk into his shop and start twisting wrenches on a D-10, he emphatically said 'Not a chance' because they 'didn't have the experience or training' that he had.... the point was sadly missed.


 Last edited by: Schnickelfritz on Sept. 9, 2021, 10:12 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Sept. 9, 2021, 11:30 a.m.
Posts: 14408
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

Posted by: Schnickelfritz

I've been struggling with my peer group on this. With our access to information, we really need to have a serious conversation about the Dunning-Kruger effect. I had a conversation with my buddy who is a heavy duty mechanic the other day via messenger. He was sending me links to a few studies 'proving that masks don't work', I sort of shrugged it off and said 'I don't understand these studies conclusions, I'm just going to trust public health officials', which he sort of took as a victory, not recognizing that HE DOESN'T UNDERSTAND THEM EITHER. I asked him whether he thought an immunologist could just walk into his shop and start twisting wrenches on a D-10, he emphatically said 'Not a chance' because they 'didn't have the experience or training' that he had.... the point was sadly missed.

There's also been a systematic war on expertise that's been waged for decades at this point (mainly from the Republican party - but that's a derail). I heard a blurb the other day on a skeptics podcast about the effects of different education levels on scientific literacy in terms of acceptance of evolution. And while the percentages were improving (USA based study), it largely came down to if you had a bachelor degree of some form, you were significantly more likely to understand and accept evolution, and if you only had a high school diploma you were much less likely to understand and accept it. That's on a scientific theory that is essentially proven fact at this point. I have little doubt that on something more complex and unknown such as the specifics around a novel Coronavirus, the percentages of basic understanding are much much worse. But twitter amplifies all opinions and lies spread faster and further than truth.

We can see this routinely in our own microcosm of this board.


 Last edited by: Couch_Surfer on Sept. 9, 2021, 11:30 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Sept. 9, 2021, 12:36 p.m.
Posts: 323
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

It's one thing to not want to get vaccinated for personal reasons. It's tragic when you go out and harass health care workers in front of a hospital like a crazy bible thumping anti-abortionists.

Sept. 9, 2021, 3:24 p.m.
Posts: 18110
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

I only play a doctor on TV.  

Therefore have my 2x passport so this shit can get into the history books.   

Do you really know whats in the Big Mac or Coke that will also stay with you for life after guzzling them down?

What about the hash you smoked Friday night?   And the car exhaust you inhale during your commute or sitting at Timmies drive thru - perfectly safe?

Sept. 9, 2021, 3:59 p.m.
Posts: 1750
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: heckler

I only play a doctor on TV.  

I bet you play one in the bedroom as well.

Sept. 9, 2021, 4:23 p.m.
Posts: 77
Joined: Feb. 2, 2021

Posted by: heckler

I only play a doctor on TV.  

Therefore have my 2x passport so this shit can get into the history books.   

Do you really know whats in the Big Mac or Coke that will also stay with you for life after guzzling them down?

What about the hash you smoked Friday night?   And the car exhaust you inhale during your commute or sitting at Timmies drive thru - perfectly safe?

Dummy: 'I'm not getting the Vaccine, who knows the long-term implications'

Gets COVID

Dummy: 'OMG!!!! Give me Monoclonal antibodies, Ivermectin, Vitamin drips, Hydroxychloroquine AND remdesivir STAT!!... uh... what else am I missing Doc?'

Doctor: 'Well, there's not a whole lot of evidence that treating COVID with Hydroxychloroquine or Ivermectin won't have long-term impli....'

Dummy: - sprinting to farm and feed store -

Sept. 9, 2021, 4:50 p.m.
Posts: 967
Joined: Feb. 28, 2014

Part of the problem is that stupid people now have an equal or greater voice compared to actual experts, because of social media. And dumb people are the loudest. Scientists and doctors aren't on every Facebook article making comments like Jimmy Knuckledragger and all his coke-head buddies from high school do. And unfortunately, those morons are the loudest and therefore more convincing to people like him. These guys aren't the most critical thinkers, unless of course, somebody shares actual stats with them.

I actually find speaking with them to be quite fun, as their arguments are so full of holes that it makes it easy to point out.

Sept. 9, 2021, 6:25 p.m.
Posts: 18110
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

Kelly Ronnigen

Sept. 9, 2021, 9:11 p.m.
Posts: 11911
Joined: June 4, 2008

Posted by: Lowcard

Part of the problem is that stupid people now have an equal or greater voice compared to actual experts, because of social media. And dumb people are the loudest. Scientists and doctors aren't on every Facebook article making comments like Jimmy Knuckledragger and all his coke-head buddies from high school do. And unfortunately, those morons are the loudest and therefore more convincing to people like him. These guys aren't the most critical thinkers, unless of course, somebody shares actual stats with them.

I actually find speaking with them to be quite fun, as their arguments are so full of holes that it makes it easy to point out.

Education funding cuts will end up costing our country trillions of dollars.

Conservatives, and to a lesser extent Liberals need to be put out to pasture if one loves their country.

Sept. 9, 2021, 10:43 p.m.
Posts: 323
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: Lowcard

Part of the problem is that stupid people now have an equal or greater voice compared to actual experts, because of social media. And dumb people are the loudest. Scientists and doctors aren't on every Facebook article making comments like Jimmy Knuckledragger and all his coke-head buddies from high school do. And unfortunately, those morons are the loudest and therefore more convincing to people like him. These guys aren't the most critical thinkers, unless of course, somebody shares actual stats with them.

I actually find speaking with them to be quite fun, as their arguments are so full of holes that it makes it easy to point out.

Anyone in an Ed Hardy shirt or a black shirt with flames on it def knows what he's talking about. You should listen.....

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