COVID-19

Posted by: tungsten

Tungsten gets my first lol ever.

Anybody have an opinion about this article from CBC today? Talks about the huge rise of cases and hospitalizations in Israel which at one point had one of the highest vaccinated populations. They talk about their biggest mistake being reopening things too quickly after the vaccines gave a false sense of security; kind of sounds familiar. What stands out is their data shows that 60% of serious hospitalization is in people who are fully vaccinated. Most are over 60, sure, with underlying health conditions, sure, but it doesn’t seem to bode well. Here in BC we’re about to implement a vaccine passport that will allow those who are vaccinated to gather and carry on life as normal while the data from Israel seems to suggest that it might not be such a good idea.

Data showed that of the serious cases being admitted to hospital, around 60 per cent of patients were people who had been fully vaccinated, though most were over 60 or with underlying health conditions.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-covid-delta-variant-booster-1.6159472

Posted by: t_w

Anybody have an opinion about this article from CBC today? Talks about the huge rise of cases and hospitalizations in Israel which at one point had one of the highest vaccinated populations. They talk about their biggest mistake being reopening things too quickly after the vaccines gave a false sense of security; kind of sounds familiar. What stands out is their data shows that 60% of serious hospitalization is in people who are fully vaccinated. Most are over 60, sure, with underlying health conditions, sure, but it doesn’t seem to bode well. Here in BC we’re about to implement a vaccine passport that will allow those who are vaccinated to gather and carry on life as normal while the data from Israel seems to suggest that it might not be such a good idea.

Data showed that of the serious cases being admitted to hospital, around 60 per cent of patients were people who had been fully vaccinated, though most were over 60 or with underlying health conditions.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-covid-delta-variant-booster-1.6159472

Delta changed the game, and Israel relaxed too quick.

According to the article, Israel has achieved roughly 62% full vax. Even initial Covid herd estimates were for 85% needed, and Delta bumps that number up due to how much more infectious it is. Vaccine passport is more (in my opinion) about providing an incentive to the apathetic to get their second shots.

We’re gunna need boosters. 

Probably for a while, the unvaccinated population will be a source of variants for a few years. 

And fucking shots for the kids!  Damn I want my kids to get shots!  Delta + people who think this over + my kids lack of vaccination is stressing me the fuck out.

Posted by: Couch_Surfer

Posted by: t_w

Anybody have an opinion about this article from CBC today? Talks about the huge rise of cases and hospitalizations in Israel which at one point had one of the highest vaccinated populations. They talk about their biggest mistake being reopening things too quickly after the vaccines gave a false sense of security; kind of sounds familiar. What stands out is their data shows that 60% of serious hospitalization is in people who are fully vaccinated. Most are over 60, sure, with underlying health conditions, sure, but it doesn’t seem to bode well. Here in BC we’re about to implement a vaccine passport that will allow those who are vaccinated to gather and carry on life as normal while the data from Israel seems to suggest that it might not be such a good idea.

Data showed that of the serious cases being admitted to hospital, around 60 per cent of patients were people who had been fully vaccinated, though most were over 60 or with underlying health conditions.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-covid-delta-variant-booster-1.6159472

Delta changed the game, and Israel relaxed too quick.

According to the article, Israel has achieved roughly 62% full vax.  Even initial Covid herd estimates were for 85% needed, and Delta bumps that number up due to how much more infectious it is.  Vaccine passport is more (in my opinion) about providing an incentive to the apathetic to get their second shots.  BC health is doing what it can to keep hospitalizations, deaths, and ICUs low, this thing is endemic now

There are a couple of other factors to consider here too. One is that a significant number of people cross from Palestine to Israel everyday and the Palestinian vaccination rate is quite low, about 15%. Taking that into account, I think it drops the effective vaccination percentage of Israel down, though by who much how nows. So their effective fully vax'd rate could be hovering around 20% below ours - that's a huge difference. The second factor is population density. Israel has a population density of 400 per sqkm - that's 100 times higher than Canada with 4. Granted our population is clustered in a few places, but if you compared the density of Metro Van at 900/sqkm to Jerusalem with 7500/sqkm, the difference is still pretty f'n big. Seeing as we know how covid spreads, areas with high population densities are going to fare the worst when it comes to covid. 

Re the 60% hospitalization rate, I've seen a bunch of chatter on this from the anti-covid crowd and one thing that gets missed is the consideration of length of time between 1st vax and when they get sick. As Israel was early to the vax game, it may be that the protection offered by the vax is starting to wane. The covid vax was never a one and done thing, and of course viruses change over time, so I think it's a bit disingenuous for people to point at this one factor and say the vax's are a failure. It also has to be considered that if people who are unvaxed have gotten covid before, depending on when that happened and the variant they got it stands to reason that they may have better immunity that those who got the vax.  In there lies probably my biggest bone of contention in all of this, that a lot of people are isolating one factor among many and holding that up as the reason for covid being some sort of scam or the vax being a failure or some other nonsensical argument. 

I also think at some point that we just have to accept that covid is here to stay and will become a seasonal thing. There'll need to be a discussion about society's perceived acceptable level of risk just like we have for everything else like car crashes or getting really sick from the flu. People do things and people die and we can't bubble wrap the world and keep everyone 100% safe. I no longer think the goal or idea of eliminating the risk of covid is practical and so we're going to have to make some choices about what we're willing to live with in the future.  Then again, climate change might wipe us out before we really have to worry about covid, so maybe we just sift towards a bacchanalian styled society and party till it's all over - sorry kids.

http://www.bccdc.ca/Health-Info-Site/Documents/COVID_sitrep/2021-08-26_Data_Summary.pdf

Slide 7 is quite clear to me

(Page 8 of the pdf, it has a 7 in tge bottom right)

Posted by: aShogunNamedMarcus

Bacterial Pneumonia Caused Most Deaths in 1918 Influenza Pandemic

Circa 2008, Fauci co-authored that. And a random other link for anyone interested.

Pneumonia is a common symptom of upper respiratory viral infections you cabbage.

Posted by: tashi

We’re gunna need boosters. 

Probably for a while, the unvaccinated population will be a source of variants for a few years. 

Ethics?  https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2021/08/09/Job-One-Vaccinate-The-World/

Posted by: Fast-Orange

Pneumonia is a common symptom of upper respiratory viral infections you cabbage.

It's like the only part of that link he read was the title. The very first paragraph states:

"The majority of deaths during the influenza pandemic of 1918-1919 were not caused by the influenza virus acting alone, report researchers from the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), part of the National Institutes of Health. Instead, most victims succumbed to bacterial pneumonia following influenza virus infection. The pneumonia was caused when bacteria that normally inhabit the nose and throat invaded the lungs along a pathway created when the virus destroyed the cells that line the bronchial tubes and lungs."

The bold is my emphasis.

What are people's thoughts in putting the majority of our (society/medical community) energy into protecting those who are the most vulnerable to covid and letting everyone else get on with things? There for sure will still be some "non-vulverable" people who get caught and get sick or die, but is that an acceptable social risk like we have with all sorts of other things, ie car crashes?

Alberta's calling.....

Posted by: tungsten

Alberta's calling.....

lol

you'd have a good point if your statement was accurate, but it isn't.

Posted by: tungsten

Posted by: tashi

We’re gunna need boosters. 

Probably for a while, the unvaccinated population will be a source of variants for a few years. 

Ethics?  https://thetyee.ca/Analysis/2021/08/09/Job-One-Vaccinate-The-World/

I think this pandemic has shown that nations (and individuals) will take care of their own first, even if that results in the poorer countries being a source of mutations. 

Not a great strategy for the world overall, but if international travel is restricted while we vaccinate to the best of our ability than it’ll probably be best for us.

The global poor are going to be dealing with this for a lot longer than we will be, that’s for sure. On the bright side the mutations that result from the selection pressure of acquired immunity usually get progressively milder (a la the descendants of the 1918 flu) while vaccination often drives the evolution in the opposite direction (like hospital-bourne superbugs).

I think the US of a is giving us the best idea of how the vaccines are working. They are throwing caution to the wind, opening up everything despite some states having less than 50% vaccinated! Their numbers seem to suggest the vaccines work pretty well keeping people out of the hospital. I saw some stats today from bc saying their data shows the vaccines make people 48x less likely to end up in icu. 

The protests yesterday at the major hospitals in bc yesterday were pretty frustrating for health care workers. Unvaccinated people complain to the people they are going to come and ask for help when they get sick. 

Vaccines are about doing something for yourself and your neighbors. When people refuse to get vaccines, they don't want to take any risk unless they get a personal gain. Once they get sick they want everything! Experimental antibodies, he'll ya! Unproven antivirals, immunosuppressive drugs or antihelmiths- absolutely! But still no vaccine. It's crazy and crazy frustrating. You wouldn't believe how hard it is to keep staff and other patients safe. I hate to know how much the children of today will be paying over the years for covid in all sorts of ways. Loss of opportunity, education, work and paying off all the debt 

As for boosters, I get a flu shot every year and don't blink. Guess I'll be adding a covid shot. What's What's big deal?