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COVID-19

July 14, 2021, 9:51 a.m.
Posts: 1642
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

There's also the factor of privilege to consider in the sense that most of us aren't really aware how a lifetime and generations of being oppressed can affect the way someone thinks.You both are right, but not quite for the reasons you think. IE rural/poor is a big factor, but it's the effects of being poor that are at play, not just the fact of being poor as poor people can get access. Same for politics, it's the effect of the political system that are at play, not necessarily who's in power or what they're pushing. So in a way you're both right and you're both wrong. What's at issue is the psychology of the people that aren't getting vax'd and the reasons why come down to many different things. It's some combination of politics, education, upbringing, peers, affluence, finances and others. It's a huge confluence of social factors that accumulate over a person's lifetime. You can get people that are educated and financially well off who are anti-vax and "hugs over mask" types as well as people who are uneducated and poor.

I think what steers people's beliefs typically comes down to just a few factors tho; belief in religion, trust in authority, political views and peer group influence and acceptance - huge factors of personal identity. I think that last one though, peer group influence and acceptance, is the strongest factor. And rejection from the more established group can be a bigger influence than anything else in driving someone's views.

July 14, 2021, 11:57 a.m.
Posts: 11497
Joined: June 29, 2006

Posted by: syncro

There's also the factor of privilege to consider in the sense that most of us aren't really aware how a lifetime and generations of being oppressed can affect the way someone thinks.You both are right, but not quite for the reasons you think. IE rural/poor is a big factor, but it's the effects of being poor that are at play, not just the fact of being poor as poor people can get access. Same for politics, it's the effect of the political system that are at play, not necessarily who's in power or what they're pushing. So in a way you're both right and you're both wrong. What's at issue is the psychology of the people that aren't getting vax'd and the reasons why come down to many different things. It's some combination of politics, education, upbringing, peers, affluence, finances and others. It's a huge confluence of social factors that accumulate over a person's lifetime. You can get people that are educated and financially well off who are anti-vax and "hugs over mask" types as well as people who are uneducated and poor.

I think what steers people's beliefs typically comes down to just a few factors tho; belief in religion, trust in authority, political views and peer group influence and acceptance - huge factors of personal identity. I think that last one though, peer group influence and acceptance, is the strongest factor. And rejection from the more established group can be a bigger influence than anything else in driving someone's views.

Identity coupled with the non stop propaganda plays the biggest role for sure.  I am sure if the vaccine roll out was under Trump or Bush the numbers would be very different because Fox News would be praising the effort which would allow them to be OK with it.  Once you lock into the identity of a specific group you become really easy to manipulate.  

The hugs over masks type are also motivated by their identity.  My sister is typical of a very health conscious woman in her 50s (Gwyneth's target audience), especially when it comes to food, so the idea of not having full control over what she puts in her body opens the door to propaganda that focuses on nothing but the personal risks.  At the same time she has been trained for years to believe that western medicine is 99.9% detrimental and that by eating well and exercising she is bulletproof to disease because that is how it is all caused.  Any time anyone we know gets cancer her and her friends will always find a health choice that they made as the cause, as though genetics were not relevant.   If you try to discuss the community benefit of vaccines with most people like her you will typically get stonewalled because they already have a gut reaction that the jab is dangerous to their pristine system so they can't follow that logic.  I have a buddy that is trying to convince his wife to get the vax and she is legit scared to do so.  The fact that most everyone she knows has had it as is fine doesn't seem to help.

July 14, 2021, 1:36 p.m.
Posts: 21
Joined: Nov. 19, 2018

Your sister sounds hot - is she single?

July 14, 2021, 2:16 p.m.
Posts: 15101
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

my whacko sister who has never had a political bone in her body suddenly became a libertarian because she thinks it matched her reasoning for not getting the jab

my other sister said oh yeah they follow Alex jones

July 14, 2021, 10:03 p.m.
Posts: 3474
Joined: May 23, 2006

https://www.counterpunch.org/2021/07/14/on-gain-of-function-research-covid-19-and-the-shortcomings-of-the-biological-weapons-convention-an-interview-with-laurie-garrett/

You're welcome.


 Last edited by: tungsten on July 15, 2021, 10:01 p.m., edited 2 times in total.
July 15, 2021, 8:35 a.m.
Posts: 16685
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

My welcome what?

July 15, 2021, 9:05 a.m.
Posts: 14390
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

Posted by: KenN

My welcome what?

i was waiting for that.

July 15, 2021, 10:31 a.m.
Posts: 1642
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: Couch_Surfer

Posted by: KenN

My welcome what?

i was waiting for that.

If it wasn’t for low hanging fruit I think KenN would starve.

July 16, 2021, 9:30 p.m.
Posts: 15441
Joined: Dec. 30, 2002

Posted by: tungsten

https://www.counterpunch.org/2021/07/14/on-gain-of-function-research-covid-19-and-the-shortcomings-of-the-biological-weapons-convention-an-interview-with-laurie-garrett/

You're welcome.

Its all about the prions dude.

The upcoming 4th wave (September'ish) will be blamed on the unvaxxed. Meanwhile, it'll mostly be people who've been doubled tapped that come down with the sickness.


 Last edited by: aShogunNamedMarcus on July 16, 2021, 9:31 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
July 16, 2021, 9:50 p.m.
Posts: 3474
Joined: May 23, 2006

Posted by: aShogunNamedMarcus

Posted by: tungsten

https://www.counterpunch.org/2021/07/14/on-gain-of-function-research-covid-19-and-the-shortcomings-of-the-biological-weapons-convention-an-interview-with-laurie-garrett/

You're welcome.

Its all about the prions dude.

The upcoming 4th wave (September'ish) will be blamed on the unvaxxed. Meanwhile, it'll mostly be people who've been doubled tapped that come down with the sickness.

4 posterity

July 17, 2021, 10:37 a.m.
Posts: 14390
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

Posted by: chupacabra

Identity coupled with the non stop propaganda plays the biggest role for sure.  I am sure if the vaccine roll out was under Trump or Bush the numbers would be very different because Fox News would be praising the effort which would allow them to be OK with it.  Once you lock into the identity of a specific group you become really easy to manipulate.  

https://globalnews.ca/news/8029113/us-covid-vaccine-resistance-politics/

July 17, 2021, 1:36 p.m.
Posts: 15441
Joined: Dec. 30, 2002

Posted by: tungsten

Posted by: aShogunNamedMarcus

Posted by: tungsten

https://www.counterpunch.org/2021/07/14/on-gain-of-function-research-covid-19-and-the-shortcomings-of-the-biological-weapons-convention-an-interview-with-laurie-garrett/

You're welcome.

Its all about the prions dude.

The upcoming 4th wave (September'ish) will be blamed on the unvaxxed. Meanwhile, it'll mostly be people who've been doubled tapped that come down with the sickness.

4 posterity

I thought you'd link up some Disturbed. No one ever picks up what I'm putting down ;)

July 17, 2021, 1:39 p.m.
Posts: 15441
Joined: Dec. 30, 2002

Posted by: Couch_Surfer

Posted by: chupacabra

Identity coupled with the non stop propaganda plays the biggest role for sure.  I am sure if the vaccine roll out was under Trump or Bush the numbers would be very different because Fox News would be praising the effort which would allow them to be OK with it.  Once you lock into the identity of a specific group you become really easy to manipulate.  

https://globalnews.ca/news/8029113/us-covid-vaccine-resistance-politics/

I like the part about Tucker saying the vaccine doesnt work and they're just not telling you. Fauci told you/us all last summer.

July 18, 2021, 11:39 p.m.
Posts: 3474
Joined: May 23, 2006

July 19, 2021, 10 a.m.
Posts: 14390
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

Posted by: syncro

It's also generations of mistrust.

I don't agree with the passivity of this comment.  Generations of mistrust has been fomented by the Republican party and amplified to unseen levels by Trump and Trump-fearing Repulicans.  This didn't just happen to his base, this was strategic direction.

This is DJT's statement on Covid as of 20 hours ago:  

"He's not doing well at all. He's way behind schedule, and people are refusing to take the Vaccine because they don't trust his Administration, they don't trust the Election results, and they certainly don't trust the Fake News, which is refusing to tell the Truth."

By tying the vaccination efforts to the Big Lie, there is no clearer evidence that the Republican party is actively trying to keep a pandemic going in order to score political points against Democrats.  They literally are killing their own for perceived political gain.

Gross.

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