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Worlds Perception of Vancouver.

June 16, 2011, 10:02 a.m.
Posts: 1130
Joined: June 29, 2005

I have to premise this by saying that I am an avid student of politics, and that I come at this from an academic perspecitve.

What gets me is that in this case the witnesses to the event were the event. If you look at the footage, you see a very few - all male - assholes burning and breaking stuff, and 10,000 other people with cell phone cameras and live Twitter/Facebook feeds. I agree that there is a line between audience and accomplice. At some point - earlier rather than later - you need to realise that holding a cell phone camera does not make you immune to the demands to vacate the area. Pepper spray in the eyes really sucks, but that is what happens when you don't think.

What also gets me is that this kind of thing is right below the surface. Even in Vancouver, which is probably one of the most mellow places I've ever lived. I've seen similar things in Boston when the Red Sox WON, in LA when Rodney King LOST, in Montreal (and Seattle, and all over Europe, Asia, Latin America and pretty much everywhere else) when the G8/G20 SHOWS UP. My question is to what extent is hockey just an excuse? Is this kind of thing indicative of a larger social tension that lies just under the surface? Is this JUST a comment on Vancouver and hockey, or a much larger and much more widespread problem? Of course these are much bigger questions, and it is far easier to just say that it is all hockey and all Vancouver, but we are missing something if we do this.

Ask why is it that it is always cop cars, retail stores and banks that get smashed?

June 16, 2011, 10:11 a.m.
Posts: 33724
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

There's something fundamentally wrong with this lasse-faire attitude that this city has towards bad elements. I for one do not like or appreciate this social aspect of our culture. There is no respect or accountability for wrong doings, and the local populace has a far too hippy mentality (for lack of a better term) when it comes to crime and punishment.

Round up all the hooligans, tattoo swaztikas on there foreheads, dress them in t-shirts that say "white power", and then bus them down to and drop them off in the middle of Compton.

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

June 16, 2011, 10:18 a.m.
Posts: 26382
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

It's okay if people's opinions have been lowered.

It's when you said you were reconsidering moving to van because of it that made you sound like a prick. Despite the riot Vancouver is still a very safe city when compared to…well any of yours.

London England had the Underground bombings a few years ago. Yet still people went there just after. Greece has and had riots/protests. Still people went there just after.

People will see past this and still come to Vancouver. It's only the small percentage who will only see this that don't

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

www.teamnfi.blogspot.com/

June 16, 2011, 10:32 a.m.
Posts: 4890
Joined: July 9, 2004

:uk: Englishman here about the OP!

WOW! I have dreamt of moving to the north shore for a while now but this has really put a downer on things! I just don't get it! We have massive sporting events in the UK (European cup final: Man U Lost) and we hardly ever get this sort of thing and never on this sort of scale!

I know that when i get home my Gf will have had second thoughts about moving… which will essentially mean i won't be going! Thanks alot assholes!

I know the north shore is a long way from there and that the folk seem alot more relaxed but its all 'Vancouver' in many people's eyes and you guys are gonna suffer for it! In fact the whole of BC is gonna suffer i imagine, especially with tourism being a big part of your income!

As i said before… I just don't get it!

So I wonder if realestate values will drop now.

June 16, 2011, 10:35 a.m.
Posts: 15232
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

My question is to what extent is hockey just an excuse? Is this kind of thing indicative of a larger social tension that lies just under the surface? Is this JUST a comment on Vancouver and hockey, or a much larger and much more widespread problem? Of course these are much bigger questions, and it is far easier to just say that it is all hockey and all Vancouver, but we are missing something if we do this.

Ask why is it that it is always cop cars, retail stores and banks that get smashed?

random thots

I went to a 1st night celebration in downtown Van about 20yrs ago , I didnt like it because I felt like at any moment it could turn mob ugly cuz nothing really tied that crowd together but a desire to party ,I still go to gatherings of people who party [HTML_REMOVED] drink but I know when to cut and run and thats when civilization goes out the window and the mob mentality rules

Not sure how to say it but yeah a the problem there seems to be the loss of civilization just for that moment

Maybe cop cars / retail stores /Banks all represent establishment [HTML_REMOVED] power which is something a rioter doesn't have ?

June 16, 2011, 10:37 a.m.
Posts: 4794
Joined: Aug. 4, 2004

So I wonder if realestate values will drop now.

Imagine how freaked out the Chinese are now.
They thought imaginary ghosts were bad. They don't have shit on anarchists and douchebags.

June 16, 2011, 10:39 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Oct. 17, 2008

if anyone twitters (lol) check out #thisismyvancouver for a glimpse of hope

this space is intentionally blank, other than this note about it being blank.

June 16, 2011, 10:53 a.m.
Posts: 1084
Joined: May 29, 2003

Simply Fantastic!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2LBtDrcIntk

(Youtube took down the previous one)

June 16, 2011, 11:39 a.m.
Posts: 1130
Joined: June 29, 2005

random thots
Maybe cop cars / retail stores /Banks all represent establishment [HTML_REMOVED] power which is something a rioter doesn't have ?

My point exactly. I can pretty much guarantee that the real troublemakers (not just the onlookers) did NOT go home to their Yaletown condos afterwards.

I suspect that civil society needs these kinds of events from time to time, simply to demonstrate the strength of that society through how quickly things go back to normal. Here is what I mean: during the riots in Cairo, the news media was reporting "the breakdown of civil society" as they were showing groups of people coming together to defend their neighborhoods. Now, to me that is a demonstration of the strength of civil society, since even in the absence of central authority these people were working together towards a common goal. People volunteering to clean up after the riots does the same thing. I saw a number of interviews of people on the scene last night saying how embarrassing it all was. That is far more indicative of the mindset of the vast majority of Vancouverites than are the idiots burning things.

I prefer to look at things this way because if you don't it becomes all too easy to say "large scale public gatherings should be disallowed." IMO it is in part the fact that Vancouver makes public space so readily available that makes it such an awesome place to live.

And for those who do want to ban large public gatherings (watch for the reporters to start asking these questions - they are guaranteed to), I say that if you are going to do that, then let's get at the core of the issue: all males from the ages of 15-30 should be banned from any public gathering of over 500 people. (Needless to say, this gets obviously absurd very quickly.)

June 16, 2011, 12:08 p.m.
Posts: 11680
Joined: Aug. 11, 2003

My point exactly. I can pretty much guarantee that the real troublemakers (not just the onlookers) did NOT go home to their Yaletown condos afterwards.

I suspect that civil society needs these kinds of events from time to time, simply to demonstrate the strength of that society through how quickly things go back to normal. Here is what I mean: during the riots in Cairo, the news media was reporting "the breakdown of civil society" as they were showing groups of people coming together to defend their neighborhoods. Now, to me that is a demonstration of the strength of civil society, since even in the absence of central authority these people were working together towards a common goal. People volunteering to clean up after the riots does the same thing. I saw a number of interviews of people on the scene last night saying how embarrassing it all was. That is far more indicative of the mindset of the vast majority of Vancouverites than are the idiots burning things.

I prefer to look at things this way because if you don't it becomes all too easy to say "large scale public gatherings should be disallowed." IMO it is in part the fact that Vancouver makes public space so readily available that makes it such an awesome place to live.

And for those who do want to ban large public gatherings (watch for the reporters to start asking these questions - they are guaranteed to), I say that if you are going to do that, then let's get at the core of the issue: all males from the ages of 15-30 should be banned from any public gathering of over 500 people. (Needless to say, this gets obviously absurd very quickly.)

The unfortunate thing is, the gathering of people cleaning up the place, showing pride for their city and working together as a community is much more the norm for here, but it will not get much news time, and it certainly won't make it internationally, simply because there is no sensationalism, and that totally skews people's perspectives.

June 16, 2011, 12:15 p.m.
Posts: 7306
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

The unfortunate thing is, the gathering of people cleaning up the place, showing pride for their city and working together as a community is much more the norm for here, but it will not get much news time, and it certainly won't make it internationally, simply because there is no sensationalism, and that totally skews people's perspectives.

pretty much. The other thing that will not be show or seen is the percentage of people in the city that are saddened by the event(the riot).

June 16, 2011, 12:23 p.m.
Posts: 1130
Joined: June 29, 2005

The unfortunate thing is, the gathering of people cleaning up the place, showing pride for their city and working together as a community is much more the norm for here, but it will not get much news time, and it certainly won't make it internationally, simply because there is no sensationalism, and that totally skews people's perspectives.

Yep. It gets air time if it a.) blows up or b.) has boobs. Other than that, who cares? This is distinct problem with the media as a whole.

When was the last time you heard a lead line stating "2.5 million people living in Vancouver did not kill each other today?"

It all feeds back into this underlying mentality that we are all animals just under the surface, which in turn feeds in to a desire (consciously or not) for more control over us. This is exceedingly obvious in the call for "more security" in the aftermath of 9/11, but even the replies on the various threads here show it very clearly. (It is not hard to find people calling for more police presence, even more police violence. But how wrongheaded is that? Violence is never the solution to violence.) This is great if you are interested in living in a police state, but it seriously undercuts the potential for doing things better.

June 16, 2011, 12:39 p.m.
Posts: 11680
Joined: Aug. 11, 2003

On a side note. How the hell do people walk with the waist of their jeans hanging under their arse?

June 16, 2011, 12:43 p.m.
Posts: 1130
Joined: June 29, 2005

On a side note. How the hell do people walk with the waist of their jeans hanging under their arse?

Awkwardly.

June 16, 2011, 12:47 p.m.
Posts: 15232
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

we ARE animals but we have minds ,we have the ability to choose ,we have a civilization and in that civilization we have norms that people are expected to uphold and everyone knows them … is more security going to make us more better behaved / more civilized ?

consider how many cops we had for the olympics and then double that cuz there were that many plainsclothes officers kickinmg wround not to mention the army

anybody want to live in a police state like we had during the olympics ?

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