When Iraq gets invaded...

Over 50% of Iraq is less than 16. This is a fucking war on Children. Its all fine and well to say that soldiers won't shoot anyone who doesn't point a gun at them. But Urban Warfare is a different type of war. The innocent mixed in with the guilty. Firing into a crowd full of woman and children will happen. There WILL be civilian casulties.
Bush is a bigger terrorist than Iraq. How many countries has the US entered since the last time Iraq did?

If you hate our government so much, run for office so you can change it. Going away from your problems isn't going to make them better. Don't be a quitter. Being liberal, you could probably gain office in DC, WA, or OR. Possibly CA.

i live in ca
getting office doesnt mean you can change it.. bush is looking superceed the un.. he has already taken away baisc civil librities. we live wiht a dammed shadow governemt. i fear walking outside of the house, knowing that 1 in 10 people in large towns are trying to be hired as citizen spies..

Originally posted by Lunatik
Over 50% of Iraq is less than 16. This is a fucking war on Children. Its all fine and well to say that soldiers won't shoot anyone who doesn't point a gun at them. But Urban Warfare is a different type of war. The innocent mixed in with the guilty. Firing into a crowd full of woman and children will happen. There WILL be civilian casulties.
Bush is a bigger terrorist than Iraq. How many countries has the US entered since the last time Iraq did?

Civilian casualties…
It depends on the scenario. Some are saying civ casualties in the thousands. The only way this could happen is if we carpet bombed a city.

War on children huh?
That's right, wasn't it officially changed from "War on Terror" to "War on Children"? Damn kids…

Actually, there are units specially trained to handle "women and children" type scenarios. I once read an account about two gunmen in Libya that were killing Marines at their base from long distances, while hiding in a crowd of kids. A team of Army counterterror snipers were dispatched, and using a lightweight, custom type of bullet that dumps all of its energy on impact, eliminating the possibility of killing someone behind the bad guys, were able to keep the Marines safe from snipers while at the same time inflicting no collateral damage.

We know the price of firing into a crowd of people in a city. Ever see the movie "Black Hawk Down?" Read the book. We know now how a city can quickly rise up against a small force of soldiers. We will most likely use small, low impact types of units that are difficult to detect by the enemy. If the enemy can't pick them out from a crowd, the shooting won't start.

Originally posted by umbullit
i live in ca
getting office doesnt mean you can change it.. bush is looking superceed the un.. he has already taken away baisc civil librities. we live wiht a dammed shadow governemt. i fear walking outside of the house, knowing that 1 in 10 people in large towns are trying to be hired as citizen spies..

Which civil liberties?
Dude, you sound a little paraniod. What is a shadow government (sorry, I'm not quite up to speed on the latest cospiracy theories.)? What are citizen spies? What do you have to fear?

That's what some don't seem to get. As an outsider you can see civil liberties becoming less important in the eyes of this government. How do you keep people out of a "free" country? Well it's a hard thing to do. So what is the US turning into?

This is not a question of how bad Saddam is, this is not a question on invading Iraq. Maybe we should. I don't know. He is a bad guy, no doubt, but is Bush any better? The Iraqi citizens are fearing for their lives right now, just as the Americans did during 9/11. They have a leader who is causing trouble and threatening the stability of the world. Bush is doing the same thing. So what's the difference?

He just has to go about acheiving his goals through diplomacy first. That doesn't mean going to war second. Why does the UN not impose sanctions on the US? Maybe they should in order to stand up to Bush if he invades.

Another country who would go against the UN and invade another smaller country would be heavily sanctioned and threatened with opposable force. Why will this not happen to the US?

there is a program called USAPA. under it the gov can invade your home, search and seize, wihtout ever producing a warrnent, and you dont have to be informend of it ever. they have a program called calea that allows them to intercept all internet trafic, and use it to "find terrorists" they no longer need a reason besides "might be suspisious" to invadde your home, work, or whatever. they have carnivore, that listens to all phone trafic. the program tips is the one that allows for citizen spies. its almost like we are under a stalinisic gov. i mean thing about it. . bush doesnt run the country.. we all know that. daddy doesnt either, caus he at least has a shred of decency, chenny doesnt either, caus he is "in an undisclosed location"
i firmly belive that my once great and free nation is going to shit. and the worst part is that people are apathetic about it. dont care at all. i can understand the plane regulations, but not what has been happining cince.. we may well indeed see a nother world war, started without the backing of any other country than the united states. hence, we would more than likely get a draft.
then again.. i pay more attention, caus im worried about it all.
dont belive me.. look up the usapa, tips, calea, carnivore, and all those other programs.

[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED] "AND A CHILD SHALL LEAD THEM TO PEACE …"
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[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]Presque Isle, Maine Peace Rally Speech
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]Before 150 Aroostook county residents from around the County
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]February 15, 2003 - St. Mary's Church
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]by Charlotte Aldebron (age 12)
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]When people think about bombing Iraq, they see a picture in their heads
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]of Saddam Hussein in a military uniform, or maybe soldiers with big
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]black mustaches carrying guns, or the mosaic of George Bush Sr. on the
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]lobby floor of the Al-Rashid Hotel with the word "criminal". But guess
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]what? More than half of Iraq's 24 million people are children under the
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]age of 15. That's 12 million kids. Kids like me. Well, I'm almost 13,
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]so some are a little older, and some a lot younger, some boys instead
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]of girls, some with brown hair, not red. But kids who are pretty much
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]like me just the same. So take a look at me-a good long look. Because I
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]am what you should see in your head when you think about bombing Iraq.
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]I am what you are going to destroy.
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]If I am lucky, I will be killed instantly, like the three hundred
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]children murdered by your "smart" bombs in a Baghdad bomb shelter on
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]February 16, 1991. The blast caused a fire so intense that it
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]flash-burned outlines of those children and their mothers on the walls;
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]you can still peel strips of blackened skin-souvenirs of your
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]victory-from the stones.
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[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]But maybe I won't be lucky and I'll die slowly, like 14-year-old Ali
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]Faisal, who right now is on the "death ward" of the Baghdad children's
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]hospital. He has malignant lymphoma-cancer-caused by the depleted
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]uranium in your Gulf War missiles. Or maybe I will die painfully and
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]needlessly like 18-month-old Mustafa, whose vital organs are being
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]devoured by sand fly parasites. I know it's hard to believe, but
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]Mustafa could be totally cured with just $25 worth of medicine, but
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]there is none of this medicine because of your sanctions.
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]Or maybe I won't die at all but will live for years with the
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]psychological damage that you can't see from the outside, like Salman
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]Mohammed, who even now can't forget the terror he lived through with
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]his little sisters when you bombed Iraq in 1991. Salman's father made
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]the whole family sleep in the same room so that they would all survive
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]together, or die together. He still has nightmares about the air raid
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]sirens.
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[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]Or maybe I will be orphaned like Ali, who was three when you killed his
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]father in the Gulf War. Ali scraped at the dirt covering his father's
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]grave every day for three years calling out to him, "It's all right
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]Daddy, you can come out now, the men who put you here have gone away."
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]Well, Ali, you're wrong. It looks like those men are coming back.
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[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]Or I maybe I will make it in one piece, like Luay Majed, who remembers
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]that the Gulf War meant he didn't have to go to school and could stay
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]up as late as he wanted. But today, with no education, he tries to live
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]by selling newspapers on the street.
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]Imagine that these are your children-or nieces or nephews or neighbors.
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]Imagine your son screaming from the agony of a severed limb, but you
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]can't do anything to ease the pain or comfort him. Imagine your
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]daughter crying out from under the rubble of a collapsed building, but
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]you can't get to her. Imagine your children wandering the streets,
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]hungry and alone, after having watched you die before their eyes.
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[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]This is not an adventure movie or a fantasy or a video game. This is
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]reality for children in Iraq. Recently, an international group of
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]researchers went to Iraq to find out how children there are being
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]affected by the possibility of war. Half the children they talked to
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]said they saw no point in living any more. Even really young kids knew
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]about war and worried about it. One 5-year-old, Assem, described it as
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]"guns and bombs and the air will be cold and hot and we will burn very
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]much." Ten-year-old Aesar had a message for President Bush: he wanted
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]him to know that "A lot of Iraqi children will die. You will see it on
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]TV and then you will regret."
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[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]Back in elementary school I was taught to solve problems with other
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]kids not by hitting or name-calling, but by talking and using "I"
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]messages. The idea of an "I" message was to make the other person
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]understand how bad his or her actions made you feel, so that the person
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]would sympathize with you and stop it. Now I am going to give you an
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]"I" message. Only it's going to be a "We" message. "We" as in all the
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]children in Iraq who are waiting helplessly for something bad to
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]happen. "We" as in the children of the world who don't make any of the
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]decisions but have to suffer all the consequences. "We" as in those
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]whose voices are too small and too far away to be heard.
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED] We feel scared when we don't know if we'll live another day.
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED] We feel angry when people want to kill us or injure us or steal our
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]future.
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED] We feel sad because all we want is a mom and a dad who we know will
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]be there the next day.
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED] And, finally, we feel confused … because we don't even know what we
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]did wrong.
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[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]Charlotte Aldebron, 12, attends Cunningham Middle School in Presque
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED]Isle, Maine. Comments may be sent to her mom, Jillian Aldebron:
[HTML_REMOVED] [HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][HTML_REMOVED][email protected]

I actually live rather freely, and all MY civil liberties remain intact. If you feel like you are getting the raw end of the deal, take it to the supreme court. People have beaten the US gov't in civ lib cases before.

As to the question about the UN sanctioning the US, we would most likely just pull out of the UN, and tell them to go screw themselves. The UN is not the US, they really cannot tell us what we can and can't do. It ultimately comes down to whether or not we want to listen to them. When Iraq becomes a superpower, it too can tell the UN to screw itself.

…and all this was written by a US citizen who has most likely never been out of the country in her young life. Noble effort though, I give it an A for language and composition. Probably the most intellegent piece I've read to date regarding protesting war in Iraq. Once again though, a little inaccurate. Do not count out Iraqi propaganda creators when you think about those 300 kids killed in a bomb shelter…

If the UN is told to go screw itself the US will start another World War.
I'm not too sure what weapons WW3 will be fought with. But WW4 will be fought with sticks and stones.

Originally posted by EC Biker

As to the question about the UN sanctioning the US, we would most likely just pull out of the UN, and tell them to go screw themselves. The UN is not the US, they really cannot tell us what we can and can't do. It ultimately comes down to whether or not we want to listen to them. When Iraq becomes a superpower, it too can tell the UN to screw itself.

When it came to the 9-11 attacks, the US cried to the UN about fighting the war on Terrorism and having UN support and all that shit. Got the UN support and bombed the fuck out of Afgan, are still holding people in Cuba, and all with the so called UN approval. Now, you're saying if the US dosen't get UN approval in the criminal acts upon another country, screw them? HYPOCRITE.
You can't have it both ways.

How would pulling out of the UN cause WW3?

BTW, something interesting I found…

Originally posted by Shore for Sure
When it came to the 9-11 attacks, the US cried to the UN about fighting the war on Terrorism and having UN support and all that shit. Got the UN support and bombed the fuck out of Afgan, are still holding people in Cuba, and all with the so called UN approval. Now, you're saying if the US dosen't get UN approval in the criminal acts upon another country, screw them? HYPOCRITE.
You can't have it both ways.

Who said I have any say in all of this?