War with Alberta

Posted by: KenN

Posted by: chupacabra

How much does your car cost per km?  I commute between Burnaby and Squamish in an old Maxima.  It is not cheap on fuel but it was cheap to buy and I didn't want to rack miles up on a new car.  It is closing in on 200,000 KM so a "new" car is on the horizon.  Between the fuel savings and rebates, it might be a good time to pull the trigger on an electric.

I run about 220 wh/km in summer, 240 wh/km in winter.  That's about 4.5 km/kwh summer;4.2 km/kwh winter.  Simple math using your hydro rate from there.  So worst case, in winter at BC Hydro step 2 rates (12.87 cents/kwh plus 5% delivery charge), it's going to cost you just over 3 cents per kilometer driven, or $3 per hundred km.  Compare to a reasonably efficient gas car at, say 6 litres/100 km efficiency, using $1.40 per litre you're looking at $8.40/100 km.

Factor in that about 1/2 my charging is at free public chargers and the cost to operate plummets.

That would be cost of fuel/energy only.  With the EV there's no oil changes, tune-ups etc. etc.  I got an annual maintenance program for mine, but when it runs out this year, I'll probably only bring it in every second year for service.

If you're serious about trying it out, maybe check out North Shore Kia - their used car group is really keen on the EV market and they have some used 2015 Nissan Leafs for around the $20k mark.  For that price, you could see if it works for a summer, then sell it at minimal loss if it doesn't work out.

For your commute, the Leaf would work one way, but would be tight for the round trip.  You'd need to find charging at/near work (or even an available outlet).  For longer range options that are not crazy expensive, Chev Bolt, the new 2018 Leaf (looks much nicer ... honest!) or wait until the Tesla 3 gets to Canada.

I guess when you start with the current Leaf as a baseline, anything will look better. The 2018 Leaf still aint no show pony thats for sure. Whats the ETA on Model 3s getting to Canada now?  Ive heard 2018, but given their issues, is that date still realistic?

Model 3 ramp up is now on track (the new, revised schedule!) for 5k units per week by June.  Canadian reservation holders are being told that Mod3 should be here by 3rd quarter 2018.  Of course, to get one in 2018 you do need to have a reservation already.  If you order today, it'll be a reservation for delivery some time in 2019.

Based on my news sources, I figure they're 4-6 months behind original plan.

Posted by: KenN

Model 3 ramp up is now on track (the new, revised schedule!) for 5k units per week by June.  Canadian reservation holders are being told that Mod3 should be here by 3rd quarter 2018.  Of course, to get one in 2018 you do need to have a reservation already.  If you order today, it'll be a reservation for delivery some time in 2019.

Based on my news sources, I figure they're 4-6 months behind original plan.

I think yours is the optimistic view.  The pessimists view (not necessarily mine) is that they are done and out of the car business by 2019.  2018 is a make or break for them with the Model 3.

Besides upgraders and state owned Asian companies are there non-Canadian companies still operating oil sands plants?

We’re surpassing ‘Merica Lite and heading straight towards and passing Full Retard now. 

Still haven’t figured out how Canada is to meet Paris targets by putting through a pipeline expansion?

Also unsure how BC is to meet its targets with Horgan off selling BC LNG in lol Asia?

What's the benefit to being "BC for BC" or "Alberta for Alberta"?  How often does a small isolationist perspective benefit anyone?

Anyone that thinks they have the moral high ground screwing another Province to benefit their Province should take a minute and check the cover on their passport - last i checked mine still said "Canada".

Posted by: shoreboy

I think yours is the optimistic view.  The pessimists view (not necessarily mine) is that they are done and out of the car business by 2019.  2018 is a make or break for them with the Model 3.

Well, the pessimists are a lot like those religious nuts on street corners.  Every couple of months they have to revise the date when the end of the world will come.

The pessimists still think that EVs are just a tiny niche market waiting for a major player to push Tesla out of business.  Reality is that the entire market of 60 million plus passenger cars per year is going to be almost exclusively EV within the next 10-20 years, and that leaves a lot of room for competition.  The major mfrs still treat EVs like a weird product for weird people and make weird looking cars in small quantities, meant to comply with CAFE (or similar) regs.   With so much infrastructure invested in 100 years of ICE technology, the majors are way too slow to move.

Posted by: jitenshakun

What's the benefit to being "BC for BC" or "Alberta for Alberta"?  How often does a small isolationist perspective benefit anyone?

Anyone that thinks they have the moral high ground screwing another Province to benefit their Province should take a minute and check the cover on their passport - last i checked mine still said "Canada".

Each side of this conflict could assume you are speaking for them... was that intended?

Posted by: jitenshakun

Anyone that thinks they have the moral high ground screwing another Province to benefit their Province should take a minute and check the cover on their passport - last i checked mine still said "Canada".

Personally, I think BC is "screwing" Alberta to the benefit of the entire world.  Pollution of ocean ecosystems, dirty mining, and burning fossil fuels is killing every living thing on the planet.  But, you know,  .... jobs.

Posted by: ReductiMat

Each side of this conflict could assume you are speaking for them... was that intended?

Yup, because the conflict is dumb.

How can a natural resource dependent province like BC cry foul over Alberta's use of natural resources, and vice versa.

Dumb.

Posted by: KenN

Posted by: chupacabra

How much does your car cost per km?  I commute between Burnaby and Squamish in an old Maxima.  It is not cheap on fuel but it was cheap to buy and I didn't want to rack miles up on a new car.  It is closing in on 200,000 KM so a "new" car is on the horizon.  Between the fuel savings and rebates, it might be a good time to pull the trigger on an electric.

I run about 220 wh/km in summer, 240 wh/km in winter.  That's about 4.5 km/kwh summer;4.2 km/kwh winter.  Simple math using your hydro rate from there.  So worst case, in winter at BC Hydro step 2 rates (12.87 cents/kwh plus 5% delivery charge), it's going to cost you just over 3 cents per kilometer driven, or $3 per hundred km.  Compare to a reasonably efficient gas car at, say 6 litres/100 km efficiency, using $1.40 per litre you're looking at $8.40/100 km.

Factor in that about 1/2 my charging is at free public chargers and the cost to operate plummets.

That would be cost of fuel/energy only.  With the EV there's no oil changes, tune-ups etc. etc.  I got an annual maintenance program for mine, but when it runs out this year, I'll probably only bring it in every second year for service.

If you're serious about trying it out, maybe check out North Shore Kia - their used car group is really keen on the EV market and they have some used 2015 Nissan Leafs for around the $20k mark.  For that price, you could see if it works for a summer, then sell it at minimal loss if it doesn't work out.

For your commute, the Leaf would work one way, but would be tight for the round trip.  You'd need to find charging at/near work (or even an available outlet).  For longer range options that are not crazy expensive, Chev Bolt, the new 2018 Leaf (looks much nicer ... honest!) or wait until the Tesla 3 gets to Canada.

I am not really in a rush, but a used Leaf might be worth a try like you said.  When you drive as much as I do, the oil changes, etc add up too, especially with an older car with a V6 (and a heavy foot).  It would probably come close to paying for itself before depreciation.  

Thanks for the info KenN.  I knew if anyone knew the numbers it was you.  :)

Posted by: jitenshakun

Posted by: ReductiMat

Each side of this conflict could assume you are speaking for them... was that intended?

Yup, because the conflict is dumb.

How can a natural resource dependent province like BC cry foul over Alberta's use of natural resources, and vice versa.

Dumb.

LOL.  So you are actually speaking for Alberta.  Thanks for clearing that up (not that we were too confused).

There is no answer to your question because natural resources are not some big group of things indistinguishable from one another.  There is a big difference between oil extraction in the tar sands vs forestry or even mining.  Extracting oil from the tar sands is very bad from an environmental perspective.  I am pretty sure you have heard this before, so unless you believe that BC is supporting an equally damaging resource extraction here, you are just trolling us.

Posted by: chupacabra

LOL.  So you are actually speaking for Alberta.  Thanks for clearing that up (not that we were too confused).

There is no answer to your question because natural resources are not some big group of things indistinguishable from one another.  There is a big difference between oil extraction in the tar sands vs forestry or even mining.  Extracting oil from the tar sands is very bad from an environmental perspective.  I am pretty sure you have heard this before, so unless you believe that BC is supporting an equally damaging resource extraction here, you are just trolling us.

I'm not trolling but I do get a laugh out of the distinctly BC enviro-views that play out on the board.  

Boo to anything that might hurt a tree (apart from cutting one down) and boo to anyone that buys property in BC that wasn't born in BC.

Now, that's how your troll these boards.

Posted by: jitenshakun

Posted by: chupacabra

LOL.  So you are actually speaking for Alberta.  Thanks for clearing that up (not that we were too confused).

There is no answer to your question because natural resources are not some big group of things indistinguishable from one another.  There is a big difference between oil extraction in the tar sands vs forestry or even mining.  Extracting oil from the tar sands is very bad from an environmental perspective.  I am pretty sure you have heard this before, so unless you believe that BC is supporting an equally damaging resource extraction here, you are just trolling us.

I'm not trolling but I do get a laugh out of the distinctly BC enviro-views that play out on the board.  

Boo to anything that might hurt a tree (apart from cutting one down) and boo to anyone that buys property in BC that wasn't born in BC.

Now, that's how your troll these boards.

Being concerned about climate change is definitely not "distinctly BC", but thinking that the tar sands is a gift to Canada that will keep on giving may be distinctly Alberta.  

I like Alberta and I have a vested interest in its success.  I sell products there, and the downturn has been bad for my business, but Alberta's future cannot continue to be all about the oil.  You are going to see more and more of our transportation move to electric, and as KenN was saying, once demand decreases and the price for oil drops, tar sands oil becomes unsustainable.  When will this reality sink in?  When your F-150 is a plugin?  You might want that sweet BC electricity when that happens.

BC is just a scapegoat, the real enemy of Alberta (and by extension, Canada) is the Conservatives that pissed away all that money that could have been used to build a new Alberta economy when times were good.