Trump.

Posted by: tungsten

Posted by: chupacabra

Bernie is great, but without an army of AOCs to move their agenda forward it is pointless.

Absolutely wrong. Bernie would use the office of POTUS the same way FDR did, as a bully pulpit to force his opponents to support his agenda. As opposed to the weak and suppine Obama who caved at the first signs of resistence. Additionally, with Bernie dominating public discourse it would be far easier for future AOC's to primary out the ossified coroprate dems from state and federal office. As well as putting every republican politician on notice.

Here, watch this very presidential address.... https://berniesanders.com/bernie-addresses-nation-health-and-economic-crisis/

What makes you think that Bernie would dominate public discourse? Just because it seems that way inside your bubble doesn't mean that Bernie is a modern-day FDR. He failed to build a broader coalition of support and there is no way he would even have a snowball's chance in hell without at least getting the attention of centrists nevermind conservatives. The bully pulpit only works with the broad support of the people and Americans are fractured and bombarded by propaganda. There is no pulpit anymore. No radio or tv with everyone tuning to the same station. You are kidding yourself if you think Obama only lacked the courage to bend Republicans to his will. Stopping his every move was all they cared about, and Bernie wouldn't have the same level of support from within his own party that Obama did. Math doesn't lie.

There is no pulpit anymore.

Bullocks. It just hasn't been used since Eisenhowler.

You really are a glass half empty kinda' person, aren't you.

Posted by: tungsten

There is no pulpit anymore.

Bullocks. It just hasn't been used since Eisenhowler.

You really are a glass half empty kinda' person, aren't you.

No, I just recognize that the era of getting information from one source is over and the bully pulpit is mostly gone with it. You may not remember this but this idea you have about Bernie was also what people said Obama would do if elected. The problem was that he could pull it off would broad support in Germany, just not the USA. It has been used since Ike though. Bush used it because he had wide support for war after 9/11 and their subsequent fear-mongering, but it is far rarer in modern times and it gets harder by the year.

I am not pessimistic, I just disagree with your methods because of what I have seen down there in the last 20 years. The Bushes were the Clintons of the GOP and if it were not for the Koch backed "libertarians" we might have a president Jeb today. They worked over the GOP through the state legislatures and through the townhalls and then backing candidates into Congress and the Senate. Trump wasn't their man in 2016, but he used the door they opened and in the end, he was better than they ever dreamed for their cause which is to create an America built for and by the wealthy landowner.

IMO, if progressives want to take over America vis a vis the Democratic party they need to get their shit together and do the same thing. They need representation in the MSM and to stop whining about it. They need to be loud and active and co-opt the Dems from the ground up because let's face it if Bernie were president he would have a lot of headwinds from his own party in both Congress and the Senate. He would have to compromise with them or be left with nothing but executive orders. Even Obama had this problem and he was never as transformational and was more popular within the Democratic party.

EDIT:  I just noticed your avatar.  None other the humanitarian Muammar.

No, I just recognize that the era of getting information from one source is over and the bully pulpit is mostly gone with it. 

Reading your posts hurts my eyes, chup.

That's why most 'mericans still get their information from the tee vee.....

https://www.journalism.org/2016/07/07/pathways-to-news/

Posted by: tungsten

No, I just recognize that the era of getting information from one source is over and the bully pulpit is mostly gone with it. 

Reading your posts hurts my eyes, chup.

That's why most 'mericans still get their information from the tee vee.....

https://www.journalism.org/2016/07/07/pathways-to-news/

TV is the medium, not the source.  It doesn't matter the medium, people get their news from different sources.  With TV there is MSNBC, FOX, etc.  There is no Walter Cronkite.  No single trusted source of information for the majority of people.  Without that, you can't effectively persuade the general population as you could with the fireside chats.  We both like Bernie Sanders and we can't even agree on who shot down MH17 FFS.  

I can't understand how you can believe that so many people are morons by getting their news from mainstream sources that actively sabotage the progressive movement while at the same time think that Bernie could use the bully pulpit to build this strong coalition.  How do you envision this miracle happening?

OMG r u daft?!

Sanders as POTUS will commandeer air time on the networks because _________________emergency, eh?

Posted by: tungsten

No, I just recognize that the era of getting information from one source is over and the bully pulpit is mostly gone with it. 

Reading your posts hurts my eyes, chup.

That's why most 'mericans still get their information from the tee vee.....

https://www.journalism.org/2016/07/07/pathways-to-news/

Says the guy that constantly pollutes threads with loads of counterpunch articles.  lol

https://youtu.be/-0uQV83U5Dk?t=2304

Posted by: chupacabra

I would love to see Bernie as POTUS, but crushing the GOP is more important to me.

The right-wing DNC would rather lose with the Biden at the helm and the voter suppression is testament to it.

You are going to have to explain this theory. Are you saying that the DNC suppressed Bernie votes with full knowledge that Biden will lose? I think what we saw in the primaries is that the people supporting Bernie are unreliable and that Biden, whatever you think of him, is building a coalition better than Bernie.

Progressives need to keep working on Congress and the Senate.  That is where the power of the parties lives.  The Tea Party/Kochs realized this and it took them a few cycles, but they now wield the power in the GOP over the old school conservatives.  Bernie is great, but without an army of AOCs to move their agenda forward it is pointless.

Occam's razor.

Bernie is a lone voice trying to bring the United States in line with 22 of the 23 first world nations.

There is way too much money involved in the DNC & GOP, thanks in most part to that Citizen's United shit, to let anything stray from the authoritarian right.  The US will be feudalistic soon enough, although most would argue they are there already, and I couldn't be bothered to disagree.

Imagine owning a company where your employees were afraid to leave because they could die?

Posted by: chupacabra
I can't understand how you can believe that so many people are morons by getting their news from mainstream sources that actively sabotage the progressive movement while at the same time think that Bernie could use the bully pulpit to build this strong coalition. How do you envision this miracle happening?

Brave New World. 1984.

Manufacturing Consent.

Thinking, Fast and Slow. Nudge. Predictably Irrational.

It's no miracle. We are monkeys on a rock hurtling through space and advertising combined with knowledge of the above work all too well. It's extremely easy to get people to vote against their best interests when they are uneducated *.

Take that Newsweek cover I posted above. No one will buy it, but now people will be saddled with the anchor, "Sanders / Muslim."

Sadly, it's tiny moves like these that set the world stage.

(* See Ontario, Alberta - Why we are cutting education (was BC but somehow we were smart enough for an election cycle to kick those shit cunts to the curb))

Posted by: ReductiMat

Posted by: chupacabra
I can't understand how you can believe that so many people are morons by getting their news from mainstream sources that actively sabotage the progressive movement while at the same time think that Bernie could use the bully pulpit to build this strong coalition. How do you envision this miracle happening?

Brave New World. 1984.

Manufacturing Consent.

Thinking, Fast and Slow. Nudge. Predictably Irrational.

It's no miracle. We are monkeys on a rock hurtling through space and advertising combined with knowledge of the above work all too well. It's extremely easy to get people to vote against their best interests when they are uneducated *.

Take that Newsweek cover I posted above. No one will buy it, but now people will be saddled with the anchor, "Sanders / Muslim."

Sadly, it's tiny moves like these that set the world stage.

(* See Ontario, Alberta - Why we are cutting education (was BC but somehow we were smart enough for an election cycle to kick those shit cunts to the curb))

I understand how people are acting against their own self-interests and the ways in which our minds are easily played, but I just don't see how in this fractured landscape how POTUS Bernie can overcome all the other forces that are acting to play our minds and lead in the way Tungsten hopes for.  The "bully pulpit" is the power of the presidency to get out in front of the people and use his status to overwhelm all other messages.  Who can do that on their own today?  Bernie with 5 dollar donations?  That would be a miracle.

Posted by: ReductiMat

Imagine owning a company where your employees were afraid to leave because they could die?

Giving a whole new meaning to George Carlin's "they own you".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIfu2A0ezq0

Swings in exit poll data in a number of American states, including Massachusetts, during the current primary season, are already strongly indicative of direct vote manipulation, or would be taken as such if they were observed in any other country but our own.

https://www.truthdig.com/articles/left-behind/