If you look at what people drive in third world countries (lots of diesels, lots of Landcruisers with 3b engines) then you'll understand why these vehicles are better. The life expectancy of a truck in Africa is somewhere between 20-40,000 miles where as Toyota's are going 100,000.
Getting back on track for this thread, the Nissan Frontier quad cab long box is the only mid-sized truck on the market that features 5 person seating (a bit tight in the back) and a long box.
Sadly, that's not even remotely close to what the Sprinter is. Check this out, like I posted in my thread: http://www.mercedes-benz.ca/content/canada/mpc/mpc_canada_website/en/home_mpc/van/home/new_vans_na/models/sprinter_906/panel_van/highlights/flexibility.0006.html
That's exactly what I would go for. They're about $50k, though. All modified 4x4 and shit they're [HTML_REMOVED]$100K. That's what I meant by stupid expensive. :(
Otherwise, to me at least, it seems like a fantastic vehicle for hauling people and toys around BC.
If you look at what people drive in third world countries (lots of diesels, lots of Landcruisers with 3b engines) then you'll understand why these vehicles are better. The life expectancy of a truck in Africa is somewhere between 20-40,000 miles where as Toyota's are going 100,000.
9 out of 10 cars in modern europe are rocking a TDi engine but YOU still arent going to get one in Canada AND believe it or not … TDi's still still break [HTML_REMOVED] still require maintenance
the last 10yrs I did 350,000kms in TDi's ,you don't replace sparkplugs but you DO replace timing belts/pulleys/waterpumps at 1000-1500$ every 120,000 kms OR end up with a very expensive boat anchor cuz they are zero clearance engines
oil that can take the soot/heat of a turbo is 10$ a liter so an oilchange is 90$ .
Ranger takes plain old oil and I am not going to miss forking out 1500$ for a Timing belt … rangers don't have them
I assume people do this simply because of the pre-electronics diesel engines that they can fix MacGyver-style in the middle of nowhere? Otherwise a 15+ year old imported Hilux seems like an awfully small pickup for quite a bit of money. The Land Cruiser they've got in stock looks great for its age, but I can buy a 3 year old 4runner for the same money. I don't get the JDM import thing, but that's probably because I've never been an offroad guy.
Outback was actually started by a friend of mine. He sold the business a few years back, so I can comment with no conflict of interest.
The back story is pretty funny. He had a Ex-Mil LR 109 with a Toyota 3B Diesel in it. In the time he owned it, he rebuilt every LR part twice…and changed the oil and filters on the 3B. When he sold the LR, he went shopping for a LC wagon. Back then, they were still commanding $22k for an 86/87 Diesel straight-6 with 250,000km on the clock. He thought it was ridiculous to pay that much for an almost 10 year old vehicle when he could get a new F250 w/ PowerStroke for $XXk more. He bought a Ford, went to live in the Yukon, and got stranded a couple times. He came across a steal of a deal on an '85 22RE Toyota Pickup and bought it for a beater. Damned if the little Toy that had [HTML_REMOVED]300,000 northern km on it didn't have less squeaks and rattles than the then [HTML_REMOVED]4 year old Ford.
At that point, he unloaded the Ford and I helped him find a Japanese HJ61 LC wagon. It got so much positive response around Whitehorse that he brought one in for a buddy, and another, and another, and…
The 2L-T's that were used in the mid-late 80s pickups and Surfs were turds by Toyota Diesel standards, but roughly equivalent in reliability to the gassers. The 3B/13B-T/2H/12H-Ts in the 81-90 LCs are about as close as anyone's ever got to a perpetual motion machine.
dunno - toyota chasis were and still are very destructable - though their druvetrains are great
It seems like in the last 10 years or so the manufacturers have been advertising stiffer and stiffer chassis as a selling point.
Take an 80s Ford or Chevy full-size through a cross-ditch and you can easily see 4" or more of deflection between the bed and the cab. The frames were designed to flex under load, just like a big truck's frame.
On the newer trucks the suspension must articulate more under the same conditions, because the frame doesn't twist nearly as much. It's an interesting change in design philosophy (that started well before ford made those vids). Better handling from a stiffer chassis maybe? Or just more dick-swinging in the pickup market?
It seems like in the last 10 years or so the manufacturers have been advertising stiffer and stiffer chassis as a selling point.
Take an 80s Ford or Chevy full-size through a cross-ditch and you can easily see 4" or more of deflection between the bed and the cab. The frames were designed to flex under load, just like a big truck's frame.
On the newer trucks the suspension must articulate more under the same conditions, because the frame doesn't twist nearly as much. It's an interesting change in design philosophy (that started well before ford made those vids). Better handling from a stiffer chassis maybe? Or just more dick-swinging in the pickup market?
That's partially true to an extent I'm sure, but some of those older trucks could suffer cracked frames after a while. Especially the '80's style F-series. Those thing were brutally flexible. When you find a crew cab Ford p/u from that area there's a good chance the frame is bent.
If you look at what people drive in third world countries (lots of diesels, lots of Landcruisers with 3b engines) then you'll understand why these vehicles are better. The life expectancy of a truck in Africa is somewhere between 20-40,000 miles where as Toyota's are going 100,000.
Better for those conditions doesn't mean better overall though IMO.
If I was living in Africa I would definitely want a non-trubo diesel rig with a manual injection pump, manual trans and transfer case, solid axle suspension, full-floater rear end with locking differential, 10-ply tires, manual locks/windows, etc.
Living in the western world with decent infastructure though, it'd be crazy to drive around in something that slow, noisy, and uncomfortable. For Canadian highways with occasional off-roading bring on something modern!
Personally I think my dream truck at the moment would be a Frontier Pro-4x King Cab 6-speed, in blue :D
That's partially true to an extent I'm sure, but some of those older trucks could suffer cracked frames after a while. Especially the '80's style F-series. Those thing were brutally flexible. When you find a crew cab Ford p/u from that area there's a good chance the frame is bent.
That's true, I also think we'll see lots of the current crop of trucks with cracked frames 30 years down the road, if they stay on the road that long.
On of the things I think is neat about the 80s F-series is that the rear cab mounts are actually inboard of the frame rails on a crossmember (on the regular cabs anyways), dunno much about the crew cabs. Where did the frames usually bend?
Mark, Sorry for getting off on a tangent here. To answer your original question. I've been driving a 2wd truck for the last 3 years and never had an issue, either in the snow or with the minor off-roading I've done. A 4x4 would be nice though.
i never get tired of watching that POS tundra almost snap in 1/2… i could laff at that video till the end of time…
It seems like in the last 10 years or so the manufacturers have been advertising stiffer and stiffer chassis as a selling point.
Take an 80s Ford or Chevy full-size through a cross-ditch and you can easily see 4" or more of deflection between the bed and the cab. The frames were designed to flex under load, just like a big truck's frame.
On the newer trucks the suspension must articulate more under the same conditions, because the frame doesn't twist nearly as much. It's an interesting change in design philosophy (that started well before ford made those vids). Better handling from a stiffer chassis maybe? Or just more dick-swinging in the pickup market?
stiffer frames give better towing chassis's..last thing you want when towing a heavy load is to have the truck wagging around.
if the trailer starts controlling the truck your in a world of hurt.
That's true, I also think we'll see lots of the current crop of trucks with cracked frames 30 years down the road, if they stay on the road that long.
30 years in this society where everything is made to last 5-10? lol… don't get me started on that.
Grab the team Tacoma for a couple of days Mark and see what you think. I love it and don't plan on upgrading for 5 years or so. The thing is bombproof as evidenced by multiple yearly trips to CO and CA with the likes of Wyper at the wheel.
Grab the team Tacoma for a couple of days Mark and see what you think. I love it and don't plan on upgrading for 5 years or so. The thing is bombproof as evidenced by multiple yearly trips to CO and CA with the likes of Wyper at the wheel.
HHHMMMM!
I think I might think of buying a Tacoma as well can I take you up on that offer as well? Saaaayyyyy right before a nice long road trip?????????????
In all honestly most guys with their opinions are probably really biased. I go by the fact that trucks are trucks and no matter what brand you are eventually going to have some issues. If you are going to buy it for what it has potential to do rather than what you are actually going to do with it you are buying it for the wrong reasons. Buy the vehicle that will work for your lifestyle not for what you think you can mould your lifestyle around.
If you find something that you might like then check out automobileforums.com and see if there is any recurring issues with that year and model, I find most of the people on there are very honest in the feedback of the vehicle.
I'm the best at being modest !
We don't know what our limits are, so to start something with the idea of being limited actually ends up limiting us.
Ellen Langer
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