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Trinity Western- Religious Freedom vs Human Rights

June 18, 2014, 11:57 a.m.
Posts: 15087
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

think about it, if the law society is against granting acreditation to a school why would you as a budding lawyer want to spend your time [HTML_REMOVED] $$$ to go there?

So you do the TWU program and you apply for a job, the managing partner takes a look at your CV and hires you OR keeps looking ?

eventualy somebody gives you a job, a perspective client spies that shingle from TWU on your office wall hires you OR pays the initial consult fee and runs like hell ?

June 18, 2014, 12:11 p.m.
Posts: 1616
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

personally i think the law society should only be focused on denying accreditation if the school is deficient in the program it offers/teaches. one's lifestyle choice shouldn't come into the equation. how do they account for people that attend accredited schools who potentially have highly bigoted or racist opinions that are far more exculsionary than those of the twu coventat which does not limit who can go but just how they conduct themselves while they attend the university?

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity ~ Seneca

June 18, 2014, 12:18 p.m.
Posts: 3368
Joined: Dec. 10, 2002

personally i think the law society should only be focused on denying accreditation if the school is deficient in the program it offers/teaches. ones lifestyle choice shouldn't come into the equation. how do they account for people that attend accdredited schools who potentially have highly bigoted or racist opinions that are far more exculsionary than those of the twu coventat which does not limit who can go but just how they conduct themselves while they attend the university?

Opinions and Covenants are two very different beasts.

TWU preaching intolerance but expecting to be tolerated.

"May a commune of gay, Marxist Muslim illegal immigrants use your tax dollars to open a drive-thru abortion clinic in your church."

June 18, 2014, 12:25 p.m.
Posts: 1616
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Opinions and Covenants are two very different beasts.

TWU preaching intolerance but expecting to be tolerated.

i don't see them as preaching intolerance, it's not like they deny homosexual students the ability to attend their institution.

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity ~ Seneca

June 18, 2014, 12:26 p.m.
Posts: 15546
Joined: May 29, 2004

personally i think the law society should only be focused on denying accreditation if the school is deficient in the program it offers/teaches. ones lifestyle choice shouldn't come into the equation. how do they account for people that attend accdredited schools who potentially have highly bigoted or racist opinions that are far more exculsionary than those of the twu coventat which does not limit who can go but just how they conduct themselves while they attend the university?

This.

Are practicing Muslims or Sikh's allowed to practice law in BC?

Anyone want to discuss their opinions on homosexuality?

June 18, 2014, 12:44 p.m.
Posts: 3
Joined: Sept. 27, 2005

personally i think the law society should only be focused on denying accreditation if the school is deficient in the program it offers/teaches. ones lifestyle choice shouldn't come into the equation. how do they account for people that attend accdredited schools who potentially have highly bigoted or racist opinions that are far more exculsionary than those of the twu coventat which does not limit who can go but just how they conduct themselves while they attend the university?

I see your point - and agree somewhat. There is no perfect answer to this situation. WE can only hope that those who chose to approach the bar are of a higher moral standard than that, and that those who are not, but instead foster bigotted opinions in hiding, will eventually be outed for who they are - or more likely end up working to defend the Hell's Angels.

The point that pisses off most people is the arrogance of TWU (read christians) - that it will always continue to promote its anti-LGBT agenda (as most christian based organizations will) in spite of modern society's declaration that LGBT must be accepted as equals. For a christian organization to embrace LGBT would be somewhat blasphemous….but we know the bible is widely open to selective interpretation..The action of Law society members is one way of pushing back against Christian indoctrination - and of sending yet another message that the selective views and practices of christian organizations, as dictated by the Holeeeee-book , will not be tolerated by general populations any longer….at least here in BC.

so maybe this action is impacting on religious freedoms/discriminating against religion…but so what? When you're right, you're right. As far as I am concerned, religious freedom is a crock. IT only serves as a mean for religions to impose their views on others.

But im a pastafarian….so i digress.

All hail FSM.

I'm ignoring Smedley.

June 18, 2014, 12:46 p.m.
Posts: 3
Joined: Sept. 27, 2005

i don't see them as preaching intolerance, it's not like they deny homosexual students the ability to attend their institution.

really? are you that blind? what would you call it then? They only allowed blacks (for lack of a better word - im not the most PC person) on the back of the bus at one time….was that tolerance?

I'm ignoring Smedley.

June 18, 2014, 12:50 p.m.
Posts: 3
Joined: Sept. 27, 2005

This.

Are practicing Muslims or Sikh's allowed to practice law in BC?

Anyone want to discuss their opinions on homosexuality?

I expect that if there was a post-secondary institution based on Sikh/Muslim values in BC, and it had an open practice of intoelrance, that it would face the same pushback from a the law society if it tried to open a law-school - but then we would be racists…

I'm ignoring Smedley.

June 18, 2014, 12:51 p.m.
Posts: 1616
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

I see your point - and agree somewhat.

i think most posting in this thread agree that there are valid points on both sides of the debate. personally i find myself in a weird position and i think it's well know that i have a fairly strong stance against homophobic beahviour and thinking.

i disagree though with your notion that christians promote and anti-gay/lgbt agenda. i agree that some do (i would consider those as the fringe/batshitcrazy type christians) but i think more are accepting of this difference.

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity ~ Seneca

June 18, 2014, 12:55 p.m.
Posts: 1616
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

really? are you that blind? what would you call it then? They only allowed blacks (for lack of a better word - im not the most PC person) on the back of the bus at one time….was that tolerance?

that's not a straight comparson. twu is not providing a lower level of service or education as all who attend their institution are afforded the same level of and access to their programs and services. what they are asking is that while atteding their institution that people follow certain lifestyle restrictions.

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity ~ Seneca

June 18, 2014, 12:56 p.m.
Posts: 15087
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

This is only impacting TWU's religious freedoms in that the law society won't give their graduates accreditation to become an officer of the court with what I believe is good reason

TWU and their grads are still free to believe whatever they want … they just can't become lawyers

June 18, 2014, 1:11 p.m.
Posts: 3
Joined: Sept. 27, 2005

This is only impacting TWU's religious freedoms in that the law society won't give their graduates accreditation to become an officer of the court with what I believe is good reason

TWU and their grads are still free to believe whatever they want … they just can't become lawyers

i.e still free to ride on the back of the bus. The bus still gets you there in the same amount of time…you just gotta follow our rules to get our services. IT so happens that our rules are blatantly discriminatory.

I'm ignoring Smedley.

June 18, 2014, 1:12 p.m.
Posts: 26382
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

This is only impacting TWU's religious freedoms in that the law society won't give their graduates accreditation to become an officer of the court with what I believe is good reason

TWU and their grads are still free to believe whatever they want … they just can't become lawyers

And we already have enough lawyers.

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

www.teamnfi.blogspot.com/

June 18, 2014, 1:21 p.m.
Posts: 3
Joined: Sept. 27, 2005

i think most posting in this thread agree that there are valid points on both sides of the debate. personally i find myself in a weird position and i think it's well know that i have a fairly strong stance against homophobic beahviour and thinking.

i disagree though with your notion that christians promote and anti-gay/lgbt agenda. i agree that some do (i would consider those as the fringe/batshitcrazy type christians) but i think more are accepting of this difference.

i'll give ya that, and I am by no means suggesting that you would condone any type of homophobic attitudes….but I will also say that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree when it comes to christianity. Within the christian world, there is definitely a wide spectrum of attitudes regarding tolerance to LGBT, which makes it even more difficult for me to tolerate it (ironic)- but the majority of devout christians, I would argue, are against it. Those who are in support of it, but still call themselves Christians, are probably more likely to have very loose interpretations of the bible, of who/what God is and more likely to challenge stuff spewed from the pulpit.

I understand what you are trying to say regarding TWU, that we need to embrace and be tolerant of our differences. That, if the product they are offering meets a basic minimum as required to be accredited, then who are we to stand in their way? - but i really think we can't be so accomodating anymore if we hope to improve the world we live in… (said in a very dictator like voice) WE should all be tolerant of each other yes - but not of each other's beliefs, if the belief system someone beholds themselves to has negative impacts on others.

I'm ignoring Smedley.

June 18, 2014, 1:24 p.m.
Posts: 33648
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

that's not a straight comparson. twu is not providing a lower level of service or education as all who attend their institution are afforded the same level of and access to their programs and services.

Agreed - different comparison.

And as long as a lawyer does their best to represent a client and stay within the law, their personal beliefs are their right.

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

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