New posts

Trinity Western- Religious Freedom vs Human Rights

June 12, 2014, 6:33 p.m.
Posts: 33665
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

As long as the lawyers uphold the law when they are doing their lawyer work…

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

June 12, 2014, 6:59 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Oct. 6, 2005

They have a right to have a code of conduct, even a discriminatory one (apparently).

They don't have a right to accreditation. They have to earn that. Seems that being discriminatory on the basis of a characteristic that is specifically protected by the laws that lawyers are responsible to uphold may disqualify them from accreditation. I can't say I'm surprised.

Seems that denying them accreditation based on them exercising their protected freedom of religion seems that would also be discriminatory since that is a characteristic that is specifically protected by a law that the lawyers are responsible to uphold.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk

June 12, 2014, 7:29 p.m.
Posts: 16696
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

and that being said, are you then prepared to pay more taxes to support the proposed increase in service delivery (I am btw…)

Absolutely, and I have unequivocally stated so in past threads, even though I already pay more in income taxes than the average Canadian individual income.

One has to be concerned though that the opportunity for corruption within our government only increases with the more money that they take in and the more services that they over-see.

A fully transparent government with open access to all political decision processes would somewhat address this concern of corruption - but thats for another thread.

I don't think corruption is limited to government, nor is it more or less likely in government. Witness the corruption that cam with privatization of prisons in the US. When profit is considered to be the ultimate motive and justification for all actions, corruption can't be too far behind. This is a small part of what feeds my distaste for private schools.

When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity.

When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called religion.

June 12, 2014, 7:32 p.m.
Posts: 16696
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

Seems that denying them accreditation based on them exercising their protected freedom of religion seems that would also be discriminatory since that is a characteristic that is specifically protected by a law that the lawyers are responsible to uphold.

They are free to practice their religion without being discriminatory. Their stance (which you are defending) that their freedoms are being violated is a straw man.

If I decided to practice a religion which involved a human sacrifice every full moon, would you defend my right to freedom of religion when the cops charge me with homicide?

When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity.

When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called religion.

June 12, 2014, 7:50 p.m.
Posts: 1732
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

They are free to practice their religion without being discriminatory. Their stance (which you are defending) that their freedoms are being violated is a straw man.

If I decided to practice a religion which involved a human sacrifice every full moon, would you defend my right to freedom of religion when the cops charge me with homicide?

the difference is that while twu is a private, faith based institution, people have a choice on whether or not to go there and it is not the only facility to offer post secondary education.

the weird thing here is i agree with you on principle of not supporting the covenant which could be used in an exclusionary process. note however, that twu has said it has not yet expelled someone for breaking that part of their covenant and would probably not do so if the situation arose. that aside, if you consider my two previous points plus that potential students are aware of this covenant before they commit to attending twu, there should be not be a fuss here based on discrimination.

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity ~ Seneca

June 14, 2014, 10:03 a.m.
Posts: 7707
Joined: Sept. 11, 2003

Is #11 a nun?

June 14, 2014, 9:28 p.m.
Posts: 3368
Joined: Dec. 10, 2002

Haven't read all 171 posts but here's what it boils down to for me.

Club A: Has specific rules you must follow to be allowed in the club.

Club B: Also has specific rules to be allowed in the club.

Club A is pissy because Club B says Club A can't be in their club because they aren't following Club B rules.

You wanna be in the "CLUB", play by the rules. Seems pretty simple to me.

  • I don't want to be in either club.

"May a commune of gay, Marxist Muslim illegal immigrants use your tax dollars to open a drive-thru abortion clinic in your church."

June 14, 2014, 10:54 p.m.
Posts: 11911
Joined: June 4, 2008

Haven't read all 171 posts but here's what it boils down to for me.

Club A: Has specific rules you must follow to be allowed in the club.

Club B: Also has specific rules to be allowed in the club.

Club A is pissy because Club B says Club A can't be in their club because they aren't following Club B rules.

You wanna be in the "CLUB", play by the rules. Seems pretty simple to me.

  • I don't want to be in either club.

It boils down to that for everyone on first blush. When one digs deeper it becomes readily apparent there is more to it which warrants further discussion.

June 14, 2014, 11:02 p.m.
Posts: 33665
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Which club is TWU and which is the law society?

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

June 14, 2014, 11:26 p.m.
Posts: 3368
Joined: Dec. 10, 2002

It boils down to that for everyone on first blush. When one digs deeper it becomes readily apparent there is more to it which warrants further discussion.

Why? Because it involves homosexuals and Jesus? ;)

It reeks of hypocrisy when one group thinks their exclusionary rules shouldn't exclude them from being included in another group.

I'm late to this party I know so I'm sure this has been beat to death in this thread already.

"May a commune of gay, Marxist Muslim illegal immigrants use your tax dollars to open a drive-thru abortion clinic in your church."

June 14, 2014, 11:27 p.m.
Posts: 16696
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

the difference is that while twu is a private, faith based institution, people have a choice on whether or not to go there and it is not the only facility to offer post secondary education.

the weird thing here is i agree with you on principle of not supporting the covenant which could be used in an exclusionary process. note however, that twu has said it has not yet expelled someone for breaking that part of their covenant and would probably not do so if the situation arose. that aside, if you consider my two previous points plus that potential students are aware of this covenant before they commit to attending twu, there should be not be a fuss here based on discrimination.

So why even have the stupid covenant?

And the very existence of any private universities represents a total failure to recognize the actual purpose of having universities.

When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity.

When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called religion.

June 15, 2014, 12:31 a.m.
Posts: 33665
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Thank God we have a free society in Canada!

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

June 15, 2014, 12:32 a.m.
Posts: 2099
Joined: April 22, 2006

So a local film crew is filming at Trinity. The liaison is explaining how open and understanding they truly are at Trinity. Of course he doesn't realize that he's telling this to 4 jews and a homosexual. Sorry I forgot the punch line.

June 15, 2014, 7:51 a.m.
Posts: 11911
Joined: June 4, 2008

Why? Because it involves homosexuals and Jesus? ;)

It reeks of hypocrisy when one group thinks their exclusionary rules shouldn't exclude them from being included in another group.

I'm late to this party I know so I'm sure this has been beat to death in this thread already.

As noted earlier in the thread, I believe this group of people covered all salient points on both sides of the argument quite well.

Transcript here.

June 15, 2014, 8:48 a.m.
Posts: 1732
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

So why even have the stupid covenant?

And the very existence of any private universities represents a total failure to recognize the actual purpose of having universities.

why? because that is the lifestyle they choose to follow and because we live in a free society that supports the idea of allowing people to choose to live the way they want to live. so while i don't support all the ideals of the university, i do support their right to choose the way they'd like to run it. in the same sense, i would support a private university that only wanted to allow non-heterosexual students into their facilities.

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity ~ Seneca

Forum jump: