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Toronto cops bag another 150 pounder

Aug. 2, 2013, 9:43 p.m.
Posts: 15465
Joined: May 29, 2004

What if he was known to carry a gun?

Pretty common in TO amongst some crowds. Again, maybe the police knew something that we don't.

Aug. 2, 2013, 9:44 p.m.
Posts: 7566
Joined: March 7, 2004

So while everyone is so busy slagging the cops because obviously they are the cause of everything?

Let us look at the bigger problem….Sammy apparently was diagnosed with Schizophrenia.

http://globalnews.ca/news/748636/toronto-police-conduct-under-spotlight-in-yatim-shooting/

Where did you get "diagnosed with schizophrenia" from in that article?

Aug. 3, 2013, 10:54 a.m.
Posts: 277
Joined: June 3, 2009

It's just a matter of time, that cop will turn his gun on himself.

I can jump and turn my bars.

Aug. 3, 2013, 3:57 p.m.
Posts: 26382
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

Seriously, why is there any suggestion that he was mentally ill?

Not one news agency is reporting that.

devils advocate what was his record in dealings with police? Did they know this kid? Was he a violent criminal that they had dealt with in the past? Was he intent on killing someone?

Its easy to go after the cops,but at this time we have NO idea why the police reacted the way they did.

hate to say this,, but I bet we'll find out eventually that this kid was not as innocent as the media would like you to believe.

I misread a media report where they where yapping about Shizophrenia.

Though from what is in this article in the Globe,

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/toronto/caught-between-two-worlds/article13587522/?page=all

It seems there wasn't exactly a happy house hold he lived in here. He apparently was having a hard time adapting to living with his father. He left everything behind mother and friend's behind.

Until this year I didn't understand how someone could look normal yet in the end be mentally ill. Now I understand that all it can take is one event..a miscarriage to losing everything you knew. That it seems like a small thing but for some they are not able to mentally deal with it and break down. And know one knows this is going on till someone jumps off the Lions Gate or forces the police to open fire.

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

www.teamnfi.blogspot.com/

Aug. 3, 2013, 8:06 p.m.
Posts: 4
Joined: March 16, 2008

What if he was known to carry a gun?

Pretty common in TO amongst some crowds. Again, maybe the police knew something that we don't.

Dat der is 'merkan thinkin'… Dey all got guns, dem…

Seriously. You're cool with use of deadly force when threat of deadly force isn't even proven? Man. The government LOVES people like you.

Might as well start roundin' up all the blacks and hispanics too. Guilty till proven innocent.

"I'm addicted to surfing."

Aug. 3, 2013, 8:12 p.m.
Posts: 14617
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

the system has turned the mentally unstable out on the street most of those street people you see talking to themsleves have no support so they end up dealing with the cops

the cops are young

what do you expect to happen?

Aug. 7, 2013, 9:23 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Oct. 5, 2006

I definitely see the merit in your retort. Points all well considered.

I think the major objection with this scenario thus far is "deadly force" for a "non-deadly" threat. C'mon, small knife, one dude - over a dozen cops, holster buttons popped on at least 10 of them; gun in hand for several. The "math" simply doesn't add up here - logistically, there was no need for deployment of deadly force.

None.

Regardless of "history".

Even if the suspect was hollering insults about donuts and how good a ride the cop's wife was.

No need.

whether the kid was mentally ill or not, he was alone on the bus and was no danger to anyone. They could have easily let him sit on the bus alone until he calmed down and came out, and then arrested him. Even if he had a knife they could have easily overwhelmed him.I can see no way to justify his death.

What a lose/lose situation this whole tragic issue is.

.02

Google "21 ft rule"

Fraser Valley Mountain Bikers Assoc.

Aug. 7, 2013, 10:37 a.m.
Posts: 26382
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

the system has turned the mentally unstable out on the street most of those street people you see talking to themsleves have no support so they end up dealing with the cops

the cops are young

what do you expect to happen?

In the last few months of trying to deal with my wife's situation and trying to navigate it all. Being from here has been a challenge. I can't begin to imagine the nightmare someone who moved here in the last 5 years faces in navigating our so called mental health system.

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

www.teamnfi.blogspot.com/

Aug. 19, 2013, 10:25 a.m.
Posts: 15465
Joined: May 29, 2004

So they've charged the cop with murder.

Gotta say I'm surprised.

Aug. 19, 2013, 10:44 a.m.
Posts: 5717
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

My guess that charging him is lip-service. Little to no chance there will be a conviction.

iforonewelcome.com

Aug. 19, 2013, 10:44 a.m.
Posts: 5329
Joined: Feb. 3, 2006

So they've charged the cop with murder.

Gotta say I'm surprised.

If he had have stopped at the first three shots that brought the suspect down, I doubt that this would have ever been an issue. I guess that when you shoot a suspect who's already laying bleeding on the ground six extra times, you're no longer incapacitating a suspect, you're willfully ending another person's life. Doubt he'll be found guilty, similar to the Zimmerman case, my guess is that the charges are overreaching a bit. They probably would have better luck charging him with manslaughter.

Aug. 20, 2013, 6:54 a.m.
Posts: 6104
Joined: June 14, 2008

So they've charged the cop with murder.

Gotta say I'm surprised.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/toronto-officer-charged-in-connection-with-streetcar-shooting-1.1417158

Aug. 20, 2013, 10:43 a.m.
Posts: 26382
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

My guess that charging him is lip-service. Little to no chance there will be a conviction.

Will be ineresting to see what other information comes to light during the trial. Because really there is still to little info about what each officer's role in all this was. Till the forensics report comes out in court we still don't how many shots each officer fired and so on.

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

www.teamnfi.blogspot.com/

Aug. 20, 2013, 11:13 a.m.
Posts: 3
Joined: Sept. 27, 2005

What if he was known to carry a gun?

Pretty common in TO amongst some crowds. Again, maybe the police knew something that we don't.

they want you to think that don't they?

Hell - maybe the copper with the gun was a schizo himself? Endura would love that.

I'm ignoring Smedley.

Aug. 20, 2013, 11:26 a.m.
Posts: 3
Joined: Sept. 27, 2005

This is a whole shitload of factors combining to create one effed up outcome.

A) cop training appears to be woefully inadequate when it comes to defusing situations such as this one peacefully….at least in this situation. We have no idea how many similar situations end with better outcomes do we?

B) The state of mind of the cop firing at the victim. I can't even imagine what was going through that guys head at that moment….his training may have been as previously outlined here. "Shoot to control the threat". HE was probably flying on autopilot. I guarantee you he didnt count how may shots he let off … the moment he fired once he was fully committed to neutralizing the "threat". He ramped himself up to the point of no return. I bet he even fired several more times not realizing he emptied the clip. Purely going on reflex at that point - another example of lack of training/preparation for such a situation. Police need to be in control of their actions at all times.

c) No other cop was able to recognize that one of their members was about to lose it. you see no communication among the cops, no clear leader taking charge of the situation. Its a free-for-all. None of them even appear to react when he shoots. They all have their emotional blinders up. Yes compassion can be a sign of weakness, but cops need to recognize when compassion goes a long way in certain situations. When your facing someone like a Bacon Brother compassion be damned..but this was just a messed up kid with a pocket knife. Once again- more training required on the parts of cops to be able to determine a more appropriate approach to the situation.

In the end - i see no excuse as to why this happened. I feel sorry for the officer who pulled the trigger. I fully believe that he lost control of his actions was on a train-wreck course. No flexibility in his approach. He'll probably need years of therapy. After it was all done im sure he didnt want to kill the kid.
The family of the victim, as hard as it may be, are in a position to advocate for change. Instead of calling for heads to roll, they should take the high road and lobby hard from their position to drastically improve training of cops. Its unfortunate that this world needs law enforcement - but we do. They need to be better at their jobs.

I'm ignoring Smedley.

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