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Toronto cops bag another 150 pounder

July 31, 2013, 12:13 p.m.
Posts: 815
Joined: March 13, 2004

Let us look at the bigger problem….Sammy apparently was diagnosed with Schizophrenia.

So, do we continue to bitch about the cops? Or do we put some more effort on dealing with what the actual problem is, the failing of our mental health system? Sure the cops may have made mistakes and there will be more then enough hand wringing over their actions. But far greater failures occurred prior to this 15 year old being aboard a street car.

People fall through the medical system cracks all the time for all sorts of reasons physical and mental. Sometimes people delay getting help or they don't follow through on physicians orders. In other cases these psychotic episodes are a result of drug use. Surely you're not advocating that if the medical system fails someone then they can expect to be peppered with lead from some small dick cop.

Maybe Sammy in a moment of clarity decided he couldn't take the pain he felt his ilness was causing him anymore and wanted a way out.

Let me add to your conjecture. Maybe the cops are still pissed the guy who killed one of their own using a snowplow got off using the insanity defence and vowed to never let it happen again.

July 31, 2013, 6:19 p.m.
Posts: 2630
Joined: May 23, 2006

I don't know if its changed, but cops used to tend to have virtually no training in dealing with or handling mentally ill people even though a lot of day-to-day policing revolves around people with some kind of mental illness or other.

This can't be right. Hell, even Taxi drivers in this city get an hours training including handouts about how to communicate with those who have altered states.

“The best propaganda is that which, as it were, works invisibly, penetrates the whole of life without the public having any knowledge of the propagandistic initiative.”

Joseph Goebbels

July 31, 2013, 6:25 p.m.
Posts: 2630
Joined: May 23, 2006

Cops aren't young … you are old. It has been said that you know you are getting old when even cops look like kids.

Pairs of 20 something dudes with guns and a badge frighten me.

I wanna' see a father figure watching over them.

As an aside, I wonder what's happing with that investigation of the Van cop who shot that guy crawling on his hands and knees in the head.

“The best propaganda is that which, as it were, works invisibly, penetrates the whole of life without the public having any knowledge of the propagandistic initiative.”

Joseph Goebbels

July 31, 2013, 9:37 p.m.
Posts: 7707
Joined: Sept. 11, 2003

This can't be right. Hell, even Taxi drivers in this city get an hours training including handouts about how to communicate with those who have altered states.

May not be true anymore … but here is an article from 2004

http://www.straight.com/life/policing-policing-psychiatric-patients

Aug. 1, 2013, 6:40 p.m.
Posts: 815
Joined: March 13, 2004

As an aside, I wonder what's happing with that investigation of the Van cop who shot that guy crawling on his hands and knees in the head.

I've been wondering the same thing. Maybe they're hoping that if the investigation takes long enough people will forget and they can shelve it.

Interesting nobody in the press has been reporting on this but I guess they're too busy reporting on the important stuff like what someone tweeted yesterday or what Kim Kardashian is up to.

Aug. 1, 2013, 6:56 p.m.
Posts: 14642
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

Cops aren't young … you are old. It has been said that you know you are getting old when even cops look like kids.

I will tell you how to know when you are old

In stead of checking out the hot girls … you check out their mothers

Aug. 1, 2013, 7:29 p.m.
Posts: 15470
Joined: May 29, 2004

Let us look at the bigger problem….Sammy apparently was diagnosed with Schizophrenia.

http://globalnews.ca/news/748636/toronto-police-conduct-under-spotlight-in-yatim-shooting/

Currently there is no evidence Yatim displayed any indication of mental illness. But his shooting death is being compared to similar cases that did involve mental illness.

I dont see where he was diagnosed with anything.

Aug. 1, 2013, 8:54 p.m.
Posts: 4
Joined: March 16, 2008

Way to go heros


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iy2zsuRyjaQ

Power corrupts.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Welcome to the NWO. It's been going on just south of us for the last 15-20 years.
Was only a matter of time.

"I'm addicted to surfing."

Aug. 2, 2013, 9:45 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Oct. 5, 2006

Clearly these cops needed to be trained in the use of Acoustic Guitars, that way they could have Kumbaya'd him off the bus into am awaiting fleece Snuggy.

Fraser Valley Mountain Bikers Assoc.

Aug. 2, 2013, 10:17 a.m.
Posts: 6104
Joined: June 14, 2008

Clearly these cops needed to be trained in the use of Acoustic Guitars, that way they could have Kumbaya'd him off the bus into am awaiting fleece Snuggy.

that sounds really really nice

Aug. 2, 2013, 4:46 p.m.
Posts: 4
Joined: March 16, 2008

that sounds really really nice

Agreed. Nice to see some actual compassion on this forum.

Suspect probably just wanted a comforting hug and some soup.

Maybe he was a realtor.

"I'm addicted to surfing."

Aug. 2, 2013, 8:23 p.m.
Posts: 26382
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

Well thought out letter to the Globe. Bringing up good points that are being ignored and are not being addressed.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/letters/july-31-quick-to-shoot-why-and-other-letters-to-the-editor/article13514222/

While we await the results of the Special Investigations Unit review and Chief Bill Blair’s review, we need to look beyond police actions and determine whether better access to mental-health services could have prevented this tragedy.

Toronto police apprehend over 6,000 “emotionally disturbed persons” per year; while there are relatively few cases of injury or death, the Police Services Board mental-health subcommittee has called for a target of zero deaths.

Police training has improved, but the police remain the only 24-hour mental-health crisis response in the city, aside from hospital emergency departments.

Even the police crisis-intervention teams do not operate 24/7 or provide full coverage across the city. More troubling is the fact that only one in three people with mental-health problems gets any care at all, and that mental-health spending has declined as a proportion of health spending from 12 per cent in 1979 to less than 7 per cent, despite 25 years of reform rhetoric.

Steve Lurie, chair, Toronto Human Services and Justice Co-ordinating Committee

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

www.teamnfi.blogspot.com/

Aug. 2, 2013, 8:50 p.m.
Posts: 15470
Joined: May 29, 2004

Seriously, why is there any suggestion that he was mentally ill?

Not one news agency is reporting that.

devils advocate what was his record in dealings with police? Did they know this kid? Was he a violent criminal that they had dealt with in the past? Was he intent on killing someone?

Its easy to go after the cops,but at this time we have NO idea why the police reacted the way they did.

hate to say this,, but I bet we'll find out eventually that this kid was not as innocent as the media would like you to believe.

Aug. 2, 2013, 9:14 p.m.
Posts: 4
Joined: March 16, 2008

Seriously, why is there any suggestion that he was mentally ill?

Not one news agency is reporting that.

devils advocate what was his record in dealings with police? Did they know this kid? Was he a violent criminal that they had dealt with in the past? Was he intent on killing someone?

Its easy to go after the cops,but at this time we have NO idea why the police reacted the way they did.

hate to say this,, but I bet we'll find out eventually that this kid was not as innocent as the media would like you to believe.

I definitely see the merit in your retort. Points all well considered.

I think the major objection with this scenario thus far is "deadly force" for a "non-deadly" threat. C'mon, small knife, one dude - over a dozen cops, holster buttons popped on at least 10 of them; gun in hand for several. The "math" simply doesn't add up here - logistically, there was no need for deployment of deadly force.

None.

Regardless of "history".

Even if the suspect was hollering insults about donuts and how good a ride the cop's wife was.

No need.

"I'm addicted to surfing."

Aug. 2, 2013, 9:22 p.m.
Posts: 2604
Joined: Feb. 15, 2003

whether the kid was mentally ill or not, he was alone on the bus and was no danger to anyone. They could have easily let him sit on the bus alone until he calmed down and came out, and then arrested him. Even if he had a knife they could have easily overwhelmed him.I can see no way to justify his death.

What a lose/lose situation this whole tragic issue is.

.02

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