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This is going to be a disaster

Oct. 7, 2013, 7:36 p.m.
Posts: 7306
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

http://www.vancouversun.com/business/Seaspan+wins+billion+Canadian+Coast+Guard+contract/9006862/story.html

Can somebody tell me when was the last time a BC shipyard built any sort of significant ocean going ship of any sort? The fast ferries? Has a single shipyard in BC built a steel vessel over 30 meters length in the past DECADE?

2008 Seaspan built a 102 meter ferry.
While it was not problem free in it's construction, it was built and it does float….

Essentially the government is paying $3.3bn so that Seaspan can stumble its way through learning how to build ships again, with the resulting cost overruns, delays, and quality problems that will inevitably ensue.

You do realize that they were already won a $8 bn contract for building government vessels? The 3.3 is just on top of that.

I'm just curious as to what you think would be a better option? Did you feel better when the other ferries were built in Germany? Would you rather see the $11 billion be spent elsewhere? If this is the case should we not just bring in foreign workers to build our roads, mine our earth(oh shit, I think they're already starting this one)and harvest our forests?

I really hope that this isn't another blunder for our province….but really what was a better option?

Oct. 7, 2013, 7:43 p.m.
Posts: 14533
Joined: Dec. 16, 2003

province did something….must criticize….worry about if it's good or bad later.

Shipbuilding is good for this province. The company I work for isn't at all related to the marine industry but we are bidding on contracts to build infrastructure. It's going to give work to a lot of people, aside from building ships.

Oct. 7, 2013, 7:50 p.m.
Posts: 26384
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

I am pretty sure that the US has solved the problem of EMP-hardening and radar protection of the avionics on the SH-60, considering how many radar frigates they fly from… The US has a huge number of guided missile destroyers and frigates with very, very powerful radar systems. Each ship has one or two onboard helicopters.

rl]

I assume you have somewhat read up on this. But ….just to be sure.

When comparing the MH-60 Blackhawks or Seahawks to the CH148 Cyclone is how it was built. The MH-60 Blackhawks and their various models are built from the start to military specifications. Everything put into the airframe is designed to handle military grade radar and such. These are not militarized civilian model airframes like say the. Griffon.

The CH148 is really the S-92, which is a civvy helicopter that the RCAF is attempting modify to meet military requirements. And as we a seeing it has not been designed nor assembled from the start with military grade components. So, now we are seeing how much it will cost us to make something like this work when it was not built to work.

Sounds like the White Star LSVW fiasco again.

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

www.teamnfi.blogspot.com/

Oct. 7, 2013, 8:16 p.m.
Posts: 2285
Joined: Feb. 5, 2005

Like others have said. The trades are transferable. Hire a good experienced EPCM group, and things can go as smooth as one can expect from any project.

Then again, I am ignoring the fact that the general public doesn't actually like jobs.

That's the problem with cities, they're refuges for the weak, the fish that didn't evolve.

I don't want to google this - sounds like a thing that NSMB will be better at.

Oct. 7, 2013, 8:41 p.m.
Posts: 3048
Joined: Nov. 20, 2004

I assume you have somewhat read up on this. But ….just to be sure.

When comparing the MH-60 Blackhawks or Seahawks to the CH148 Cyclone is how it was built. The MH-60 Blackhawks and their various models are built from the start to military specifications. Everything put into the airframe is designed to handle military grade radar and such. These are not militarized civilian model airframes like say the. Griffon.

The CH148 is really the S-92, which is a civvy helicopter that the RCAF is attempting modify to meet military requirements. And as we a seeing it has not been designed nor assembled from the start with military grade components. So, now we are seeing how much it will cost us to make something like this work when it was not built to work.

Sounds like the White Star LSVW fiasco again.

Exactly my point, what genius decided to buy a highly modified civilian helicopter rather than something that was designed from the ground up to be a military helicopter?

"Bicycling is a healthy and manly pursuit with much to recommend it, and, unlike other foolish crazes, it has not died out."
- The Daily Telegraph (1877)

Oct. 7, 2013, 9:02 p.m.
Posts: 26384
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

Exactly my point, what genius decided to buy a highly modified civilian helicopter rather than something that was designed from the ground up to be a military helicopter?

Easy, government types don't want to admit they fucked up. So instead of admitting a fuck up was made earlier. They do things to ensure they don't have to admit it. By this logic, if they go and purchase a MH-60 Blackhawks or the EH101 Merlin in their minds they are admitting the fucked up. So by going through this fiasco they avoid having to accept they fucked up.

KenN will appreciate this tidbit. This comes from a riding buddy, so might missing some details.

There is a bridge in Ottawa. This bridge is a clear demonstration of this concept. Many years ago when they did work to it they replaced the upper parts with Limestone. Sounds good until you find out the Limestone sits on sandstone. Which keeps disintegrating. The government doesn't want to admit they fucked up…bureaucrats. If they did they would solve the problem. Instead they don's and keep handing out work orders to keep repairing the stupid thing.

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

www.teamnfi.blogspot.com/

Oct. 7, 2013, 9:06 p.m.
Posts: 3518
Joined: May 27, 2008

Exactly my point, what genius decided to buy a highly modified civilian helicopter rather than something that was designed from the ground up to be a military helicopter?

We (the military) are guilty though of not properly putting out our requirements, and then evaluating the competing bids in a clear and transparent way that will stand up to future scrutiny (like the JSF). Then the government isn't willing to hold companies to task and hit them with contracted fines and monetary penalties (Sikosrky and IMP Aero), even though the companies wouldn't give us the same courtesy.

Honestly until all of that changes we deserve what we get.

Being cheap is OK. Being a clueless sanctimonious condescending douchebag is just Vlad's MO.

Oct. 7, 2013, 9:16 p.m.
Posts: 26384
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

We (the military) are guilty though of not properly putting out our requirements, and then evaluating the competing bids in a clear and transparent way that will stand up to future scrutiny (like the JSF). Then the government isn't willing to hold companies to task and hit them with contracted fines and monetary penalties (Sikosrky and IMP Aero), even though the companies wouldn't give us the same courtesy.

Honestly until all of that changes we deserve what we get.

It comes out even worse when the RCAF and RCN are looking for new aircraft and ships. Reality is items like a ship that costs 55 million per model before cost overruns gets more attention then say a second hand Leopard 2A6M CAN

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

www.teamnfi.blogspot.com/

Oct. 7, 2013, 9:49 p.m.
Posts: 8
Joined: Aug. 20, 2010

province did something….must criticize….worry about if it's good or bad later./QUOTE]

Spot on!

Oct. 7, 2013, 10:05 p.m.
Posts: 1591
Joined: May 23, 2006

First you say something sensible.

Like others have said. The trades are transferable. Hire a good experienced EPCM group, and things can go as smooth as one can expect from any project.

Then you stick your head up your ass!

Then again, I am ignoring the fact that the general public doesn't actually like jobs.

:lol:

Why?

“.....with a malevolent fascist swine atop its titular apex, the pitiful wounded beast of a rotten, spiritually dead American Superpower is careening towards epic barbarism while pushing the species dangerously to the tipping points of extinction.”

Oct. 7, 2013, 10:48 p.m.
Posts: 26384
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

province did something….must criticize….worry about if it's good or bad later.

Isn't that the Canadian way?

BC didn't get a ship building contract from the Feds…Bitch about it.
BC gets the ship building contract from the Feds……..Bitch about it.

Shipbuilding is good for this province.

Yes it is.

Problem is when the idiots at Public Works Canada and the rest start mucking up the whole thing with stupidity.

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

www.teamnfi.blogspot.com/

Oct. 7, 2013, 11:15 p.m.
Posts: 7566
Joined: March 7, 2004

I'm all for it.

Now can you military nerds stop derailing the thread? :D

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