The unaffordable subway

that was a quick leap.

the very first lines in the article are:

Equivalent electric streetcar network deliverable for same cost of proposed Broadway Corridor subway (Prof. Patrick Condon, et al, 2008, “The case for the tram; learning from Portland, Sustainability by Design: An examination of alternatives to an underground extension of the Millennium Line to UBC.” Foundational Research Bulletin, No. 6.)

without even reading any further it seems this particular article is actually based in reality and some sort of critical study.

Let's call that a Boy who calls wolf problem.
Tungsten finally uses a link with legitimate sources, but no one will click. Bummer.

Let's call that a Boy who calls wolf problem.
Tungsten finally uses a link with legitimate sources, but no one will click. Bummer.

yeah, my thoughts too. i've read common ground occasionally though and while it may have a fair number of fluff pieces and be geared towards the new age and holisitic set, they do put out some useful information.

As a cyclist I don't want street cars everywhere, the tracks are death traps when run on anything other than 90 angles to one another.

as a bike messenger in berlin i call that bullshit, learn to ride your bike properly in a city…

that was a quick leap.

the very first lines in the article are:

Equivalent electric streetcar network deliverable for same cost of proposed Broadway Corridor subway (Prof. Patrick Condon, et al, 2008, “The case for the tram; learning from Portland, Sustainability by Design: An examination of alternatives to an underground extension of the Millennium Line to UBC.” Foundational Research Bulletin, No. 6.)

without even reading any further it seems this particular article is actually based in reality and some sort of critical study.

Let's call that a Boy who calls wolf problem.
Tungsten finally uses a link with legitimate sources, but no one will click. Bummer.

Bit of this, bit of that …

I didn't read the article, just skimmed super quick. But, having read other articles on common dreams site, I'd peg their content at about 75% shite, so not going to waste much time delving into the details there.

Multiply that by the tungsten factor - 99% of tungsten links are pure, unadulterated, conspiracy theory, stinks to high heaven shite, then I'm really not going to be anything other than dismissive of it. The probabilities aren't in my favour, chances are that following any tungsten posted link will lead to a river of shit.

I think streetcar expanded from where row exists, eg Arbutus corr., Grand Blvd. NV, west 16th, east 1st. ave etc.
In the twin cities they've done like skytrain but at ground level where row exists and punched it through in some places where it doesn't.

:crybaby:

http://spacing.ca/vancouver/2013/06/18/vancouver-transit-the-era-of-street-cars/

https://vimeo.com/9817461

One question why are electric trams somehow better than electric buses?

Most of the area's involved are serviced by electric buses. I see no improvement!

Meh….

I remember people complsing about Canada Line before it was built saying the ridership not justify the cost. Look at it now. Years ahead in ridership numbers and suffering from crowding issues. I think the average daily ridership is 115-120,000 now.

For every expert there is another that will give you an opposite option.

You will never get the capacity of a separated system with an at grade system.

As far as comparing us to Portland our daily numbers on Canada line are substantially higher with a much smaller system. Apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned.

You will never get the capacity of a separated system with an at grade system.

Dunno' about that, at grade system in Mpls. is max'ed rush hour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SX66-HjAQk

as a bike messenger in berlin i call that bullshit, learn to ride your bike properly in a city…

Internet hero you are Sr.

Dunno' about that, at grade system in Mpls. is max'ed rush hour.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SX66-HjAQk

Exactly. In your own words "maxed".

21.8 miles
41 (!) stations
Daily ridership of a little over 70,000
10 minute headways…. Yawn.

Canada line does more than that on a slow Sunday.

I'm not saying at grade doesn't have a place. But it's defeitly not for densely populated high trafic areas.

But what do I know.

21.8 miles
41 (!) stations
Daily ridership of a little over 70,000

Yeah Mpls. peeps are car zombies. Give it more time and connecting lines.
41 stns in little over 20 mi = fantastic accessibility trackside as opposed to having to transfer in from a bus. Hop on hop off no climbing stairs crowded platforms load distributed fluidly.

Yeah Mpls. peeps are car zombies. Give it more time and connecting lines.
41 stns in little over 20 mi = fantastic accessibility trackside as opposed to having to transfer in from a bus. Hop on hop off no climbing stairs crowded platforms load distributed fluidly.

29kph average speed. Ssslllllooooowwwww

Yeah that's fine it's stopping all the time. Access! You lose that time anyway with Skytrain having to over/under-shoot and then transfer to your target.
Btw Skytrain average speed is 28 kph so…..?

One question why are electric trams somehow better than electric buses?

Most of the area's involved are serviced by electric buses. I see no improvement!

Suggesting with the trams aka street cars while it sounds good in theory obviously has not seen the other aspects. Things like…closing huge sections of streets completely to rebuild the roads for the tracks, the millions it takes just to fix and maintain the bloody tracks.