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The Decline of Vancouver.

Oct. 22, 2021, 2:40 p.m.
Posts: 1089
Joined: Feb. 5, 2011

Posted by: Couch_Surfer

Posted by: Bull_Dozer

I just think it's messed up that we live in a country with basically an unlimited amount of land but you either need a very high paying job or a big cash gift from family to even afford a small condo here.

We don’t have an unlimited amount of land.

What’s the stat - 90% if the population lives within 150 miles of the US border?

We have a huge amount of land that most people don’t want to live in.

I'm not suggesting that people move to rural areas in the middle of nowhere. We have tons of unused and underused land within 150 miles of the US border. Vancouver isn't densely populated at all. The downtown peninsula is but drive 3 mins outside of downtown in any direction and it's like 95% detached houses. We have tons of land, we just aren't using it properly.  Zoning and NIMBYism is a significant factor in housing affordability. 

And I'm not surprised that the core areas are unaffordable - Vancouver, Burnaby, North Shore, etc. What's crazy to me is that even when you drive an hour outside of town into the Fraser Valley everything is still very expensive. 

Compare that to NYC for example - of course Manhattan is insanely expensive. But if you get on a train and go 30 mins into New Jersey you can get a half decent house for under $500k USD. We just don't have that option here in the GVA. A house in Vancouver is like ~$2M for something not terrible but it's still like $1.3M in Langley and like $1M in Abbotsford and maybe $850k in Chillwack... And we also don't have sufficient infrastructure (trains, highways, etc.) to allow people further out to efficiently commute into downtown Vancouver.

Oct. 22, 2021, 3:56 p.m.
Posts: 3543
Joined: May 23, 2006

Posted by: XXX_er

PG housing, Smithers housing, everywhere the RE prices are way up and stupid

and there are mtn biking area's every where

F'kin' mtn. bikers eh?

Oct. 22, 2021, 7:40 p.m.
Posts: 15159
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

well obviously its the mtn bikers, the provincial gov is giving away money to mtn bike associations cuz its good tourism for not a lot of money

and stupid prices isn't that stupid compared to vangroovy


 Last edited by: XXX_er on Oct. 22, 2021, 7:42 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Oct. 25, 2021, 1:09 p.m.
Posts: 1302
Joined: March 18, 2017

Posted by: Kenny

So what do you suggest? Since you clearly can observe how terrible all of these dirty scheming lazy homeowners are, who don't work for a living and just live from tax loophole to tax loophole, screwing over the working class, from your elevated perch of socioeconomic superiority? 

In case the sarcasm is lost here, I think I speak for a lot of homeowners who own homes simply because they worked hard, set goals, and made sacrifices for something they felt was worthwhile long-term, when I say its annoying when people classify us as some type of silver-spoon/lottery winner/had everything handed to them/got in early /speculator/ tax evader or whatever in an attempt to discredit the notion that some people just figure it out however they can. Either do it or don't but whining won't solve it.

Well it's important to continue to do nothing.  Look how well it's worked so far. 

I mean Taleeb was elected in Van-Granville so...

Anyway; "Global city! Serfdom! etc"

Oct. 25, 2021, 1:27 p.m.
Posts: 1302
Joined: March 18, 2017

There's only 1.34 million vacant homes in Canada.  Maybe we can get a "2MilX2025" campaign going or something?  So long as we continue the path of global wealth being stored in Canada it should be an easy task.

Oct. 25, 2021, 1:51 p.m.
Posts: 14403
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

https://www.straight.com/news/cibc-says-vancouver-homebuyers-receive-average-of-340000-gift-from-mom-and-dad-for-property


 Last edited by: Couch_Surfer on Oct. 25, 2021, 1:53 p.m., edited 2 times in total.
Oct. 25, 2021, 2:13 p.m.
Posts: 1446
Joined: Feb. 17, 2009

Posted by: Couch_Surfer

https://www.straight.com/news/cibc-says-vancouver-homebuyers-receive-average-of-340000-gift-from-mom-and-dad-for-property

Sort of makes sense, their parents would have bought for super cheap when housing was cheap, maybe bought a second property for good measure. Sell the second property and end up with 2M in the bank, sprinkle 340K per kid and still have a healthy retirement lined up with a fully paid up principal residence.

Oct. 25, 2021, 9:41 p.m.
Posts: 3543
Joined: May 23, 2006

Posted by: Endur-Bro

Taleeb .... Van-Granville so...

Soul mates, eh?

"Global city! Serfdom! etc"

Monaco-by-the-sea

Oct. 26, 2021, 5:14 a.m.
Posts: 314
Joined: Oct. 23, 2003

Monaco is already by the sea.

Oct. 26, 2021, 8:02 a.m.
Posts: 6016
Joined: April 10, 2005

Posted by: Adam-West

Monaco is already by the sea.

He got you on that one, Tungsten, lol.


 Last edited by: Stuminator on Oct. 26, 2021, 8:02 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Oct. 26, 2021, 8:53 a.m.
Posts: 12813
Joined: Jan. 27, 2003

Pretty good racket these developers have going. They promise a certain amount of affordable rental housing in the planning phase then when it's almost done cry that they're not gonna make enough money and have to sell everything as condos.

https://dailyhive.com/vancouver/burnaby-market-rental-housing-policy-changes-risk-cancellation

This is also the site I happen to be working on. I hate my job.


 Last edited by: Fast-Orange on Oct. 26, 2021, 8:54 a.m., edited 2 times in total.
Oct. 26, 2021, 1:59 p.m.
Posts: 3543
Joined: May 23, 2006

Posted by: Stuminator

Posted by: Adam-West

Monaco is already by the sea.

He got you on that one, Tungsten, lol.

Oh boy, are you two ever dumb?

Oct. 28, 2021, 12:37 p.m.
Posts: 426
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

Posted by: Endur-Bro

Posted by: Kenny

So what do you suggest? Since you clearly can observe how terrible all of these dirty scheming lazy homeowners are, who don't work for a living and just live from tax loophole to tax loophole, screwing over the working class, from your elevated perch of socioeconomic superiority? 

In case the sarcasm is lost here, I think I speak for a lot of homeowners who own homes simply because they worked hard, set goals, and made sacrifices for something they felt was worthwhile long-term, when I say its annoying when people classify us as some type of silver-spoon/lottery winner/had everything handed to them/got in early /speculator/ tax evader or whatever in an attempt to discredit the notion that some people just figure it out however they can. Either do it or don't but whining won't solve it.

Well it's important to continue to do nothing.  Look how well it's worked so far. 

I mean Taleeb was elected in Van-Granville so...

Anyway; "Global city! Serfdom! etc"

The first sentence in my post is "what do you suggest?". Your response proposed nothing and simply complained more, so thanks for proving my point, I guess? 

Everyone seems to miss that it's supply and demand at the core of it. 

Therefore, in my mind we should probably ban detached zoning like they're looking at doing in parts of new Zealand and densify everywhere they can. But then everyone complains about real estate developers.... 

The other problem o  that front is building costs. Last I checked it costs about 600k just to build a typical detached house in Vancouver. So how are you going to slash prices by the percentages people are talking about here? Even if the land was worth nothing, you can't even build a house for that.

Oct. 28, 2021, 1:57 p.m.
Posts: 11911
Joined: June 4, 2008

Posted by: Kenny

Posted by: Endur-Bro

Posted by: Kenny

So what do you suggest? Since you clearly can observe how terrible all of these dirty scheming lazy homeowners are, who don't work for a living and just live from tax loophole to tax loophole, screwing over the working class, from your elevated perch of socioeconomic superiority? 

In case the sarcasm is lost here, I think I speak for a lot of homeowners who own homes simply because they worked hard, set goals, and made sacrifices for something they felt was worthwhile long-term, when I say its annoying when people classify us as some type of silver-spoon/lottery winner/had everything handed to them/got in early /speculator/ tax evader or whatever in an attempt to discredit the notion that some people just figure it out however they can. Either do it or don't but whining won't solve it.

Well it's important to continue to do nothing.  Look how well it's worked so far. 

I mean Taleeb was elected in Van-Granville so...

Anyway; "Global city! Serfdom! etc"

The first sentence in my post is "what do you suggest?". Your response proposed nothing and simply complained more, so thanks for proving my point, I guess? 

Everyone seems to miss that it's supply and demand at the core of it. 

Therefore, in my mind we should probably ban detached zoning like they're looking at doing in parts of new Zealand and densify everywhere they can. But then everyone complains about real estate developers.... 

The other problem o  that front is building costs. Last I checked it costs about 600k just to build a typical detached house in Vancouver. So how are you going to slash prices by the percentages people are talking about here? Even if the land was worth nothing, you can't even build a house for that.

It's not a supply-side issue.

There's a reason the provincial Liberal party never even entertained the idea of an iron-clad beneficial ownership registry and instead leaned on, "That's Racist!" whenever anyone mentioned foreign ownership.

They make most of their money from property developers.

Until we have iron-clad provincial and federal beneficial ownership registries we'll continue being a dumping ground for ill-gotten gains from abroad and we will all suffer from it.

Oct. 28, 2021, 5:04 p.m.
Posts: 1682
Joined: July 11, 2014

Most new builds in Vancouver (outside of large lots on west side) are attached duplexes these days. Zoning changes (a few years ago?) allow this pretty much everywhere. Makes sense for developers to knock down $1.5-1.8M junkers on 33x122 lots, build 2x 1500sq ft 3bd/ba high-end duplexes and sell for $1.5-1.8M each (in desirable neighborhoods). That's helping with densification, and there is a push to allow the city to push 6-storey density on major roads and 4 storey on adjacent streets, see the anger in Kits about that right now. On the one hand, I'd be pissed as a home owner on those streets, but on the other I would be stoked to sell at a premium on a land assembly and just buy somewhere else.

With two young kids we are trying to buy in Van right now (current 2bd rental feeling small). We're super lucky to have high incomes, but the road to one of those incomes involved $250k of debt which took several years to pay off in addition to saving. Had some windfall gains from property in Calgary, but unless you've ridden up 10-20 years of the Vancouver market it's tough to have capital to get into the market. This is the magic of leveraged investing, especially when people could jump into condos with 5% down and double up. Factor in absurdly low "emergency" rates for 13 years and there has been a lot of wealth created that is detached from typical  market fundamentals. I'm not confident overall in the market, but for an actual house on dirt in Vancouver on a normal lot is probably reasonably safe from massive corrections, especially while governments in power will do anything they can to prop up housing markets including BS punitive income tax measures that others have highlighted in this thread. Principal residency exemption should be axed long before cap gains inclusion goes up from 50% to 75%.

I know surgeons who had to get family "gift letter" off the books down payment loan to buy their homes because while they have insane cashflow, it still takes years to save up $900k in after tax cash to buy a $3M house. So it's not even an easy road for 1%'ers unless you have capital. Should've just YOLO'd TSLA from day 1.

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