The Decline of Vancouver.

Well, we didn't save for our downpayment while living the life on Robson Strasse. We lived in a small city with reasonable housing, saved up some equity and then moved here.

Buying a 30 year old NV townhouse for twice the price of our brand new ONT split level with land was pretty painful in 2003. Not so bad now. Even friends who paid $800k 4 years ago are sitting pretty now. They also started small and built equity.

The key is to not lease a new car every three years, not go out for dinner and drinks every day and never build up any credit debt.

But I'm just a crotchety old man. Don't listen to me.

This is how the previous generations did it. Not many of the current generation have the willpower to do this. They won't make the sacrifices necessary, don't have the patience, and are much too used to instant gratification.

This is how the previous generations did it. Not many of the current generation have the willpower to do this. They won't make the sacrifices necessary, don't have the patience, and are much too used to instant gratification.

Apparently, "times" are different, switch. Sounds to me like spending habits and entitlement are different.

Apparently, "times" are different, switch. Sounds to me like spending habits and entitlement are different.

Holy crap you guys. What's next, "You and that RAP MUSIC! GET OFF MY LAWN! I WALKED UPHILL BOTH WAYS TO SCHOOL!"

Post-secondary education has increased dramatically.

Stagnant wages?

Or if we go to the St. Louis Fed, declining wages vs. a CPI Food index where the slope is pretty much equal to one. (Increase the time-series to MAX).

Perhaps this is mostly a facade…

Ahhh yes, the TFW program! How great was that?

Ultimately, if you bought in the mid 80's or between 95 and 05 and think you're special, you're suffering from Dunning-Kruger:

Holy crap you guys. What's next, "You and that RAP MUSIC! GET OFF MY LAWN! I WALKED UPHILL BOTH WAYS TO SCHOOL!"

Post-secondary education has increased dramatically.

Stagnant wages?

Or if we go to the St. Louis Fed, declining wages vs. a CPI Food index where the slope is pretty much equal to one. (Increase the time-series to MAX).

Perhaps this is mostly a facade…

Ahhh yes, the TFW program! How great was that?

Ultimately, if you bought in the mid 80's or between 95 and 05 and think you're special, you're suffering from Dunning-Kruger:

no no those arent it. were just too entitled and arent willing to work hard enough for it..
like fuck any of you old coots worked how hard this generation has to work in order to pay for a fucking roof over your head.

Get off my lawn!

No, wait, I don't have a lawn. I'll never be able to afford a lawn! :( oh the humanity!

like fuck any of you old coots worked how hard this generation has to work in order to pay for a fucking roof over your head.

Since May 1996, I've been unemployed a total of 6 weeks and have recieved about $150 in EI. My wife has been unemployed 4 weeks in that time and has never recieved EI. Both of us were covered by severance during those times. I currently have two jobs, one of them very part time.

You?

Seems to me it's a bit of both. Wages are higher now, but take-home pay was higher back in the day. Of course the housing market is nuts with all this offshore money coming in, so harder to buy.

Since May 1996, I've been unemployed a total of 6 weeks and have recieved about $150 in EI. My wife has been unemployed 4 weeks in that time and has never recieved EI. Both of us were covered by severance during those times. I currently have two jobs, one of them very part time.

You?

Are you making minimum wage right now? If not, what year were you making minimum wage? What type of post-secondary education did you receive and when did you take it? When you entered the workforce, what was your starting wage and what were you doing? Did you have any help from friends or family for your education or your down payment? When did you buy? What was your income when you bought?

Answer those truthfully and I'm confident I can fit it all in with the data I posted here.

We were lucky, as were those who were buying in the mid-80's.

Guess what - we coots live in the same conditions today.

Re:

post secondary costs.

A while ago we thought we might need an 18 year plan for this. Within a week, there was a budget plan drawn up for an RESP that had $35k in it for birthday #18.

Re:

TFW.

I just made the call to internally transfer a young engineer to work a new project instead of outsourcing to India. I feel pretty good about that.

Re:

stagnant wages.

Yup. Gross dual income has declined last year and was stable for past 4 years. Not even COL increase.

Re:

Food costs

reduced our food costs from $1100 to $800/month in the past three years by cutting out restaurants and fast food.

Re:

debt

never have carried a credit card balance; used a LOC a few times, but mostly to reduce the interest rate on monthly payment ICBC costs.

Are you making minimum wage right now?

Hell no.

If not, what year were you making minimum wage?

1995

What type of post-secondary education did you receive and when did you take it?

Bachelors Eng Sci, 1996.

When you entered the workforce, what was your starting wage and what were you doing?

$55,000 engineering.

Did you have any help from friends or family for your education?

My parents paid for my University, I paid for books and food, lived at home. Wife paid for her own college (student loans), but her grandparents did give us $500 for our first car (a $200 Ford Escort GT that needed $1800 work to be road legal)

Did you have any help from friends or family for your down payment?

Not a dime.

When did you buy?

1996, making $90k combined, bought in Ontario for $145,000 with a 5% down. Built up $25k in equity and moved to Van in 2000. Bought a townhouse in 2003 for $275,000 and 10% down.

What was your income when you bought in Vancouver?

About $105k combined

There's no doubt a 20's something making minimum wage cannot afford a home here. I'm not arguing that point. Minimum wage also isn't middle class though. WRX's and carbon bikes are .

K, I'm honestly interested in how this pans out to the graph.

Housing price/income
1996: 145/90 = 1.61
2003: 275/105 = 2.61
2016: 800/150 = 5.3

Yup, we'd be screwed had we not bought here 13 years ago. Probably move back to Ontario like my coworker who rented instead of bought when he moved out in 2008 and my sister in law who move back to Ottawa and now has a nice home and three kids.

like fuck any of you old coots worked how hard this generation has to work in order to pay for a fucking roof over your head.

this is heading towards the financial independence thread, but..

I think the big difference is how our generation prioritizes our spending on instant gratification. Most young people want things NOW, like when they press a button on their smart-phone. Unfortunately you can apply for a credit card, apply for a $500/mo truck lease, order expensive takeout etc all from the comfort of your phone and that's what a lot of young people do, way too often, and then wonder why they can't save.

I know alot of people who work really hard but have a huge debt load from poor spending decisions who are never able to get ahead. But every time I see them they have new toys. And they complain how they're always broke. Priorities.

I was able to work seasonally through my 20's, live a great lifestyle and save the 50% down payment to buy land here over the past few years when I decided to get serious with that plan. Here's the thing..I don't make a huge amount of money (actually, most would probably laugh at my income), my family has never given me a penny after moving out at 18, but I was able to save it all myself by being really disciplined with my money, fixing my shit when it broke instead of buying new stuff, making as much of my own food as I could etc (see early post in financial independence thread).

And you know, it paid off - I'm just in the process of signing the papers on a beautiful 2.6 acre riverview property (in the middle of "nowhere", mind you) that I'll build on within the next 2 years. In the meantime the mortgage on it is $300/month which is way less than most guys pay just for the privilege of driving a shiny new leased truck that they don't even own. It's an investment into my future and part of my long term plan to retire early without a huge debt load. I'd say if I can do it, anyone can do it

BTW 50% down on land in the middle of nowhere is about the same as 5% down on a million dollar house in vancouver, so either is possible if I you want it bad enough I guess

trailworker gets it. If he can do it, sure as hell anyone can. :007:

You guys are out to lunch…

House prices are 10X local incomes. This hasn't happened ever before, no matter how frugal, ownership is further away than ever.

Incomes have been stagnant for decades, not much help from wage inflation.

Property ladder is broken, the concept of using equity from an earlier purchase to fund the next doesn't work so well anymore when the rungs on the ladder keep getting more and more spread.

Foreign money bough up choice areas, west van - van west, so all the doctors and lawyers are pricing out north van, and east van.

Things aren't good - lets not equate this to entitlement, this stupid attitude is tearing down this city and were getting nowhere near any credible solutions.

And lastly - what is with the constant appeals to the lowest common denominator? Should we not aspire to have increasing living conditions? Is it some badge of honour to say you worked 3 jobs and slept 2 hours a night ?
Why would you want the next generation to have to work 4 jobs and never sleep?

The attitudes here seem so counter productive to what progress should mean.

I mean shit, forget housing, lets all work for food in factories, because thats what they once had to do. Why strive for improvement, right?

Footnote - before any of you pile on - I started full time work at 17, and paid for my own way through life since, including buying a condo in Van. I'm aware of sacrifices.