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The Decline of Vancouver.

Oct. 21, 2021, 7:08 p.m.
Posts: 1302
Joined: March 18, 2017

LOL both houses have approx same listing price.  One has ~2x Property tax bill.  One city has industry besides Realtors, developers and speculators flipping houses to each other. 

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/1912-38th-Ave-E-Seattle-WA-98112/2112783023_zpid/ Property Taxes = $19,000+

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/23757965/4388-w-11th-avenue-vancouver Property Taxes = $10,500 

Assessed value of Vangroovy house https://www.bcassessment.ca//Property/Info/RDAwMDBCQVpLNg== "Why work when my house gains $180k annually; tax free!" Every investor knows that $2mil for a 33'x122' lot is a good value. 

"vAnCoUvEr Is A gLoBaL cItY" Heres a $3mil listing in suburb of STL Missouri with 2x Property Tax as above mentioned VanRE house. Again; hodling costs of Canadian Real Estate is comically low. Don't like that example heres another one .  Go to Butt-Fuck Alabama for ~$3.5mil for $7500 property taxes.

Also; you're neighbours in North Van/Squampton with new wonder-fibre über-Enduro rig and special series Euro Lux brand vehicle likely bought it on credit.

Heads should roll when people who earn income through labour learn how much of what they pay in Income Tax goes towards subsidizing Millionaire Home Owners in Vancouver and Greater Toronto Area.   Canada is about growing non-productive assets by any means possible (See former MP Adam Vaughan for reference) whilst taxing labour is one of the most regressive things we can do. Unfortunately we've spent decades electing the same two parties over and over to do just that.  Luckily The Boomers who've benefited the most from such tax policy will have largely died off and not have to deal with the outcome. The rest of us will face massive shortages in skilled workers country wide. 

Property Transfer Tax is there to keep Annual Property Tax rates low.  Again certain demographic benefit from this much more than anyone else.  Also the no capital gains on primary residence benefits that same group of peoples.  And it's not difficult to game the system.  People say housing is an investment yet is sure isn't taxed as such.  Why are my meme stocks, NFTs and shit coins taxed as investment income; yet a person that gains $2mil in a decade thru housing is tax free on it?

Anyway, if you believe you're a Real Estate investing guru and not another victim of shitty government policy welp thats on you.

Oct. 21, 2021, 11:01 p.m.
Posts: 427
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

So what do you suggest? Since you clearly can observe how terrible all of these dirty scheming lazy homeowners are, who don't work for a living and just live from tax loophole to tax loophole, screwing over the working class, from your elevated perch of socioeconomic superiority? 

In case the sarcasm is lost here, I think I speak for a lot of homeowners who own homes simply because they worked hard, set goals, and made sacrifices for something they felt was worthwhile long-term, when I say its annoying when people classify us as some type of silver-spoon/lottery winner/had everything handed to them/got in early /speculator/ tax evader or whatever in an attempt to discredit the notion that some people just figure it out however they can. Either do it or don't but whining won't solve it.

Oct. 21, 2021, 11:13 p.m.
Posts: 1759
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Our residential property taxes are are way too low and commercial property taxes too high - damage being done on both ends.

I'd be good with modifying or getting rid of the capital gains tax if mortgage interest was tax deductible.

Oct. 21, 2021, 11:39 p.m.
Posts: 427
Joined: Jan. 2, 2018

Posted by: syncro

Our residential property taxes are are way too low and commercial property taxes too high - damage being done on both ends.

I'd be good with modifying or getting rid of the capital gains tax if mortgage interest was tax deductible.

Incidentally, mortgage interest is tax deductible in the US, just one of the many reasons why the previous posters comparatives to property taxes on us properties are meaningless (there's like a hundred more but not worth debating). Apples meets oranges at the straw man's house.

You can't consider, or drastically alter, any single component in isolation (I know you know that, but speaking generally).

I agree things can certainly be shuffled but I doubt that will satisfy a lot of people who simply seem to want to be bitter about Vancouver real estate. Mostly millennials who feel they are owed their participation medals.


 Last edited by: Kenny on Oct. 21, 2021, 11:44 p.m., edited 2 times in total.
Oct. 22, 2021, 1:03 a.m.
Posts: 1759
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Yeah, there are so many elements cocking up the whole works that little tweaks aren't going to do anything at this point. The time to take a serious look at things was over a decade ago. Even if the market collapses 50% within the next year, housing is still unaffordable for far too many people. Realistically prices would need to crash by about 60-70% to come within range of average income earners in Metro Van. When the cheapest single family home on the East side is a fire damaged 112yr old house on a substandard lot that is over $1mil then you know that prices have to come way way down to get in the range of what could be considered somewhat normal. Even at that, $400K for a teardown on the East side is still high imo.

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/23747124/3439-fleming-street-vancouver

Oct. 22, 2021, 10:49 a.m.
Posts: 1090
Joined: Feb. 5, 2011

Posted by: syncro

Yeah, there are so many elements cocking up the whole works that little tweaks aren't going to do anything at this point. The time to take a serious look at things was over a decade ago. Even if the market collapses 50% within the next year, housing is still unaffordable for far too many people. Realistically prices would need to crash by about 60-70% to come within range of average income earners in Metro Van. When the cheapest single family home on the East side is a fire damaged 112yr old house on a substandard lot that is over $1mil then you know that prices have to come way way down to get in the range of what could be considered somewhat normal. Even at that, $400K for a teardown on the East side is still high imo.

https://www.realtor.ca/real-estate/23747124/3439-fleming-street-vancouver

Yeah it's kind of crazy how in a relatively short period of time we've gone from a place where most people could afford some sort of house/condo to now where a tiny 1-bedroom condo costs at least $500k, a 2 bedroom is at least like $850k and a 3 bedroom is probably starting around $1.2M. And the craziest part is that even when you get pretty far out of the city, the prices aren't dropping that much. And any $$ saved by moving further out will be offset by the financial and non-financial costs of sitting in your car for an extra 2+ hours a day. You either have to A) already own a place (that you likely bought for much less than current FMV), B) have quite a high paying job (like top 1% high), or C) family that's able and willing to give you a ton of cash. "Normal people" (re. wealth) don't have a chance here. And unfortunately there doesn't appear to be any obvious solution to fix the problem. We now live in a world where we are divided into haves and have-nots. Bad for society in so many different ways.


 Last edited by: Bull_Dozer on Oct. 22, 2021, 10:52 a.m., edited 2 times in total.
Oct. 22, 2021, 11:05 a.m.
Posts: 15171
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

the title of the thread is " the decline of Vancover "it was unaffordable WAY before the rest of Canada, the rest of Canada has just caught up and Vangroovy has gone even higher. Realistically  there is nothing anyone can do, maybe prices will drop maybe they will go up, more likely they will go up its  market driven and so If you failed to take advantage of opportunities in the past now you might be screwed

Oct. 22, 2021, 11:11 a.m.
Posts: 1090
Joined: Feb. 5, 2011

Posted by: XXX_er

the title of the thread is " the decline of Vancover "it was unaffordable WAY before the rest of Canada, the rest of Canada has just caught up and Vangroovy has gone even higher. Realistically there is nothing anyone can do, maybe prices will drop maybe they will go up, more likely they will go up its market driven and so If you failed to take advantage of opportunities in the past now you might be screwed

Part of me is (selfishly) glad that the real estate affordability crisis has now spread across the entire country. I moved here about 10 years ago from Toronto and at that time, Toronto prices were MUCH lower than Vancouver and Toronto also has much higher wages, so I was quite shocked to see prices in Vancouver. I always thought "WTF is going on here?!" and why aren't people more outraged... and also, why isn't the government acknowledging it or doing anything about it? Now that the issue is basically country-wide, it finally has the attention of the general public, the media, and the government so hopefully this is enough to actually trigger change.

And I actually do own a place that has gone up in value by a fair amount... I just think it's messed up that we live in a country with basically an unlimited amount of land but you either need a very high paying job or a big cash gift from family to even afford a small condo here.


 Last edited by: Bull_Dozer on Oct. 22, 2021, 11:13 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Oct. 22, 2021, 11:40 a.m.
Posts: 76
Joined: May 11, 2017

It's messed up, but when I look at any other city in the world that I would like to live in (and I've visited) its not that far off. The big difference is lower wages here and what seems like higher taxes (I've not made much money elsewhere....) but that's for a separate thread...

Oct. 22, 2021, 11:45 a.m.
Posts: 323
Joined: Oct. 23, 2003

Yeah.. pretty much anywhere desirable is pricey here. Lands still crap was coast but that weather suckkks

Oct. 22, 2021, 12:03 p.m.
Posts: 14413
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

Posted by: Bull_Dozer

I just think it's messed up that we live in a country with basically an unlimited amount of land but you either need a very high paying job or a big cash gift from family to even afford a small condo here.

We don’t have an unlimited amount of land.

What’s the stat - 90% if the population lives within 150 miles of the US border?

We have a huge amount of land that most people don’t want to live in.


 Last edited by: Couch_Surfer on Oct. 22, 2021, 12:05 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Oct. 22, 2021, 12:09 p.m.
Posts: 1759
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: MaxRockatansky

It's messed up, but when I look at any other city in the world that I would like to live in (and I've visited) its not that far off. The big difference is lower wages here and what seems like higher taxes (I've not made much money elsewhere....) but that's for a separate thread...

That's a discussion I've had with a bunch of people. If you love and take advantage of what the region has to offer - especially the mtbing - then the price of admission is pretty much worth it. I figure Vancouver is one of the few cities in the world that has the access to recreation we do as well as all the other amenities that come with a larger city/region.  Unfortunately though over the past 5yrs that balance has probably tipped to be not worth it for a fair number of people. If you're a young professional starting out in life without significant savings or help from the bank of mom and dad then making a go of it here may not be worth it.

Oct. 22, 2021, 12:11 p.m.
Posts: 1759
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: Couch_Surfer

We have a huge amount of land that most people don’t want to live in.

... Or realistically can't live in unless you're this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYJKd0rkKss

Oct. 22, 2021, 1:13 p.m.
Posts: 15171
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

For about 25 years I been sayin move narth for a more affordable life/ less stress/ less commute and I think the only person reading NSMB to do so is 3 Sheets

they couldnt find anyone to take my job 16 yrs ago so they basicly had to bribe a guy to move up, I'm betting it would be much different now

PG housing, Smithers housing, everywhere the RE prices are way up and stupid

and there are mtn biking area's every where


 Last edited by: XXX_er on Oct. 22, 2021, 1:16 p.m., edited 2 times in total.
Oct. 22, 2021, 2:26 p.m.
Posts: 76
Joined: May 11, 2017

Posted by: XXX_er

there are mtn biking area's every where

In BC yes. Not so much elsewhere though...

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