Syria

Our views of peace in the middle east won't be taken, ever. We simply don't get it in the west because Religion is not an intrinsic part of who we are. We don't understand Holy lands, and we don't hold each other accountable for the actions of forefathers so far past that their existence is disputed by scholars. It is very much a different world in the Middle East, and a society much much older than ours. They've seen the rise and fall of several Western empires, all the while remaining pretty much the same as they always have - except the weaponry gets bigger.

great point and a leading reason for not having religion in this world.

Our views of peace in the middle east won't be taken, ever. We simply don't get it in the west because Religion is not an intrinsic part of who we are. We don't understand Holy lands, and we don't hold each other accountable for the actions of forefathers so far past that their existence is disputed by scholars. It is very much a different world in the Middle East, and a society much much older than ours. They've seen the rise and fall of several Western empires, all the while remaining pretty much the same as they always have - except the weaponry gets bigger.

Do not forget what the European powers did at the beginning of the 20 ct., and before the start of the Second World War - more or less backstabbed by the British, the French and the Russians.

It is worth noting that nearly all of the states in the Middle East (which when referred to in English, goes more or less from Morocco to Turkey, whereas when we talked in German, it would only entail the area from Lybia up to Jordania, just some interesting side note) are based on founding dates in the 20 century, after the Ottoman Empire crumbled.

Instead of powers that had more or less a backing in the population, the West made sure that easy-to-control governments were installed/supported, which more or less goes on until this very day. I know it is simplified, but I am trying to make a point here.

If the West had truly a longing to help the people in Syria, it would have been ended last year. Same holds true for Egypt, look at the bloody mess over there.

great point and a leading reason for not having religion in this world.

Religion may be a part in this, at least when it is presented in the media, but it is only a minor issue. Check Robert Fisk's "The Great War for Civilization" for more accurate background information.

Fact is, all kinds of religions were more or less living together peacefully in the Middle East during the Middle Ages and the beginning of Modernity, the hatred of the 20 century has a background in more complex issues.

Religion may be a part in this, at least when it is presented in the media, but it is only a minor issue. Check Robert Fisk's "The Great War for Civilization" for more accurate background information.

Fact is, all kinds of religions were more or less living together peacefully in the Middle East during the Middle Ages and the beginning of Modernity, the hatred of the 20 century has a background in more complex issues.

ok, thanks for the lead. but what are some of the more complex issues in a nutshell if possible?

They've seen the rise and fall of several Western empires, all the while remaining pretty much the same as they always have - .

Pretty Much???? So you're a al-Nakba denier.

Syria is a major shit disturber in the Middle East

Which is why the Israelis got their back. Read VJ's article.

The OP is, I am sorry, unbelievable. Actually, I am speechless, and was close to using the word "retarded" and not "unbelievable". How effed up does media literacy have to be to believe this?

Why don't you give us a point by point repudiation of the article then, rather than blathering a muddled synopsis of a book you once read.

Why don't you give us a point by point repudiation of the article then, rather than blathering a muddled synopsis of a book you once read.

Good response, but you know, I could post every fucking book I have read about the issue, every little, pathetic article I read and had students work on for their history classes where I try to teach them to read historical sources based on certain, generally valid criteria, but you know what?

In all honesty I do not give a damn about what you personally think is true or not in this world.

Heck, if I took your line of argumentation seriously, I would maybe even start to think that the Bloody Sunday was the protesters fault.

The Syrian government did wrong, has done wrong for quite a while - and I really wish/hope that the time of those self-righteous governments in the Middle East that are nothing more than pure, brutal, illegitimate, and hypocritical dictatorships is over. The population in these areas have been abused for far too long. Same goes for the greater parts of Asia and Africa as well, by the way.

PS: Asia Times Online is based in Hong Kong, a website based in what was a former British colony, but which has been for quite a while under Chinese rule. INteresting that Russia and China have recently blocked the UN.

ok, thanks for the lead. but what are some of the more complex issues in a nutshell if possible?

- Different tribal/ethnic groups/groups with a different background in Islam put together in states/nations that would not have chosen to live together, see Irak for example.

- The behaviour of Western powers (check Saudi Arabia, Irak, Algier, etc ad infinitum)

- The way the Palestinians are treated not only by the Israelis but also by their own next-door neighbours, not to speak of the EC and the USA.

- The ongoing squabbles between the members of the Arab League themselves, only until recently have they more or less managed to get their act together (finally)

- Religion is an important issue, but the frustration of the mainly muslim population that would consider themselvs Arabs is based on the promised pan-Arabic state after the fall of the Ottoman Empire - and guess what, it never came. Instead, after WW1 and in the time between the two World Wars, Western powers used their power and contacts to create most states and set the pieces for future control - think Oil.

Christians and Jews were (for the most part) treated better than the respective groups were treated in medieval Europe, given they were paying special taxes to the various kingdoms and later the Ottoman Empire. Sure, not everything was golden and rosy, but there was a time when learning and academics were very important in the Middle Eastern World. Us Westerners got Mathematics from Arab scholars, besiders other things. No cathedrals without Arab influence. Not to speak of Medicine.

I could go on and on, but I hope this helps a bit.

Syrians love the Ba'athist Al-Assad dynasty … but not quite as much as Tungsten:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hama_massacre

I love the smell of a phoney revolution in the morning. Smells like,…..Lybia

Lol "smells like labia"

Kn.

Which is why the Israelis got their back. Read VJ's article.

If they have their back, it's because they know they can kick their ass.

Syrians love the Ba'athist Al-Assad dynasty … but not quite as much as Tungsten:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hama_massacre

I have a friend who survived that and fled the country, amongst many others who have fled - not left, but fled. Tungsten is full of shit.

Good response, but you know, .

Good, really?

Linked articles not withstanding, you'll get no argument from me that middle east dictatorships are Machiavellian and brutal.

You know, I read the Fisk book too, (signed by the author himself it is) and if there's one thing I took away from reading it it's that…..

1.) Nothing written about muddle eastern affairs in corporate western press (interesting though that the Asia Times picked up an article penned by a known lefty/progressive like Escobar) exactly or much of the time even remotely reflects of the true state of affairs.

2.) There is no limit to the Machiavellian-isms and brutality brought upon the middle east by western "interests".

3.) There is no limit to the Machiavellian-isms and brutality brought by middle eastern peoples upon each other.

4.) There is no limit to the Machiavellian-isms and brutality brought by middle eastern peoples upon themselves.(Yasser Arafat comes to mind).

Interesting responses though.

Lol "smells like labia"

Kn.

"phoney revolution smells like labia?"

What?

I don't quite no how to take this.

You're anti-feminism?