Smart Meters?

I find it a little ironic that people are complaining about smart meters "spying" on all of us while trying to protect the jobs of people who walk into our yards unannounced and creep around.

we should all be having a layer of tin foil in our hat so we don't have to worry about RF so the only question I have is what will it cost to replace all those meters, how much is the new system gona cost and is it really needed ?

Check out this page:
http://www.bchydro.com/news/press_centre/media_updates/smart_meter_facts.html

The other links have lots of info too.

I have a feeling they are banking on busting all the grow ops with them and saving their stolen power. I bet they are losing quite a bit. I also bet the installer guys are going to have a hard time getting into some of these backwoods operations and switching out meters without running into trouble.

FAQ page with info on electric theft:
http://www.bchydro.com/energy_in_bc/projects/smart_metering_infrastructure_program/faqs/general_program_faqs.html#10

What is the shelf-life of the currently installed meters? Do they last forever? How much electricity is stolen? Will smart metering make it easier to surface this information? Will there be further innovation down the line where we are able to fine tune energy use so as to make us 'greener'?

All of that and more is in the SMI business case:

http://www.bchydro.com/etc/medialib/internet/documents/smi/smi_business_case.Par.0001.File.smi_business_case.pdf

The meter readers will be around for a while, or at least until Fortis changes their gas meter to a smart version. The meter readers read both electric [HTML_REMOVED] gas at the same time.

this is the technology:

https://www.itron.com/na/solutions/Pages/Smart%20Grid.aspx

https://www.itron.com/na/PublishedContent/OpenWay%20Cell%20Relay.pdf

if you look at the PDF, it's specifically either GPRS or 1xRTT data based. that means either rogers/fido or bell/telus network. the module inside a smart meter that does the RF is very similar to one of these, such as you would buy for wireless data service for a laptop (or the module built into the HSDPA version of the iPad):

the tinfoil hat RF crazies really amaze me, because a smart meter wakes up and transmits for only a few minutes each day. you get more RF exposure from your television or microwaving a burrito.

I hear that we are bombarded with RF from the sun and other stars.

There's the real enemy right there,folks

There is definitely a lot of debate on the smart meters.

I asked the guy that was installing in my area what would happen if I refused to have one installed. He said nothing, at least right away. I would be contacted and asked again if they could install, if I refused long enough eventually power to my house would be cut off. I ended up letting him install as I don't have enough time or will to want to fight these fools.

I say fools, not to the installer, he was polite and simply was going about his job, but to the BC Hydro administration. Here is my reasoning.

Hydro is already struggling with some of it's older infrastructure and needs loads of cash to repair/replace/overbuild the infrastructure that generates power and then distributes it to you and I or perhaps across the boarder when there is surplus available. I am fine with that as we the consumer keep using more energy and keep asking more of the hydro company. The power has to come from somewhere, either we generate it or we import it at market rate.

The problem I have is that Hydro has estimated that the smart meter installation program will top 1 Billion. There is much debate on what these meters can do and how accurate they are. Will they save power, will they cut costs for the average home owner. The answer is likely no. Down the road when we are charged for power based upon time of use rates, will the average family have dinner at 11:30 at night because hydro rates are cheaper to run the stove.

Unless hydro has some very aggressive plans for dramatically raising peak power rates the business case stinks. If BC Hydro was a public company, do you think any Board of Directors would give the go ahead to spend a billion dollars on a project, that has limited potential to every payback let along generate positive cash from initial investment. The answer NO.

This is just another case of a monopoly jamming what ever shit they want down our throats. This is about as "Smart" of an investment as the Fast Ferries. The only difference is the amount screw up. I guess you can say BC is growing up as we have gone from $400K - $500K screw up jobs to $1B+. Yea for progress.

how is a modern wireless SCADA system in any way comparable to the fast ferries? one is a standards based technology used by utilities throughout north america, saving millions of person hours of labor, the other was an effort by the glen clark government to subsidize a BC shipyard which resulted in a ship with gas-turbine engines that used four times the amount of fuel that a normal ferry would have used.

I really don't understand peoples' complaints about BCHydro for residential service. Obviously they've never seen the rates in many parts of the US. Rates in BC are, I believe, 6.5 cents per kWh for the first 300kWh, then 8.5 cents per kWh for all kWh above 300. That's very, very cheap. In California it's pushing 20 cents/kWh. Parts of MA and NY state people pay between 20 to 25 cents/kWh. In many parts of Europe rates are (with the currency conversion) between 20 to 30 cents/kWh.

I hear that we are bombarded with RF from the sun and other stars.

There's the real enemy right there,folks

Yup, people don't understand this:

Down the road when we are charged for power based upon time of use rates, will the average family have dinner at 11:30 at night because hydro rates are cheaper to run the stove.

I don't think they are so much thinking that families will be eating at midnight, just maybe people will opt to start their dishwasher or laundry at non-peak times. I think most late model dishwasher or washing machines have a delay function.

"The costs of installing the new digital wireless meters is substantial, their accuracy is debatable, and there is much controversy as to whether or not the readings serve to decrease power use, or simply to increase power costs to consumers. Government employees who now read the disk-style meters total approximately 400 men and women in the province of British Columbia alone. Digital Smart Meters will effectively eliminate these jobs."

http://citizensforsafetechnology.com/smart-meters-and-grids-in-communities-governments,25,0

That's technology for you. We don't have blacksmiths and the like anymore either (besides the hobbyists). Sure these people may lose their jobs, but other jobs will open up in other sectors. When one door closes, another opens.

how is a modern wireless SCADA system in any way comparable to the fast ferries? one is a standards based technology used by utilities throughout north america, saving millions of person hours of labor, the other was an effort by the glen clark government to subsidize a BC shipyard which resulted in a ship with gas-turbine engines that used four times the amount of fuel that a normal ferry would have used.

I really don't understand peoples' complaints about BCHydro for residential service. Obviously they've never seen the rates in many parts of the US. Rates in BC are, I believe, 6.5 cents per kWh for the first 300kWh, then 8.5 cents per kWh for all kWh above 300. That's very, very cheap. In California it's pushing 20 cents/kWh. Parts of MA and NY state people pay between 20 to 25 cents/kWh. In many parts of Europe rates are (with the currency conversion) between 20 to 30 cents/kWh.

I am not comparing technologies, but decisions made by companies in monopoly positions to spend boat loads of money on projects that are provoke so much controversy.

With BC Ferries (mostly Glen Clark) the decision to build the type of boat he wanted despite some of the best boat people in the business advising on other designs that would work better and cost less to build and operate.

With BC Hydro pushing forward with a billion dollar project pushing rates higher and higher (compared to current hydro rates in BC, not anywhere else in the world) when money is so urgently required to support power generating and distribution infrastructure. Hydro initially was seeking to raise rate something like 100% over the next 2-4 years to pay for all their little wish list programs and in the end settle on a mere 40-50%.

I work for a public company a deal with budgets and revenue all day long, the thought of recommending huge projects like the smart meters with little to no possibility to every payback on investment would go over like a lead balloon.

Yup, sucks to be one of those 400.

Just like it sucked to be a scribe, back when that asshat Gutenberg came up with his devil contraption.

Maybe, we should hire those 400 to watch the smart meter data come in. To save money we could put like 10 of them in front of each computer screen. Much like the press unions in the 70's and their "Redundancy Protection"

What is wrong with charging more at peak times? This might convince some individuals or industries to rethink when and how they use there power. Smooth out the peaks and valleys etc. It might be a better sell to say that you can get a discount for usage after midnight, but it is the same idea.

Maybe they're using it to find out how to screw you BC people like Enron did with California :P