New posts

Republicans pass bill to defund Obamacare.

Sept. 21, 2013, 12:49 p.m.
Posts: 13932
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

Quads,hunting and fishing? in Detroit,Chicago etc?…doubtful. You best put down the crack pipe and back away slowly. If you don't believe that generational welfare exists you are lying to and/or deluding yourself. Put generational welfare into Google, you will find plenty of evidence to support that it exists.

As well, I am sure that some Christian right wingers support the half trillion the USA spends on war each year, that said its highly unlikely all do and your painting ALL of them with that broad brush is ethically bankrupt.Doubtless there are other left wing Democrat type moonbats just like you :) that support and earn a living from the war industry.

I do agree that the USA with all its resources and wealth shouldn't have the problems with poverty they do, and it is sad that that condition exists not just in the USA but worldwide. I would bet that if the USA/Russia/China etc put the time, money and energy into feeding the world, ending disease, and famine they could accomplish it in no time.

You can go on speaking for and hating me now, you know the Christian right wing you loathe so much.

True to form, you're better with ad hominem attacks then an argument backed by facts or statistics, (the quads, hunting fishing thing is in reference to your buddy Farmer's post, where he seems to thin that's what people that aren't working are doing with all their time.)

I did google intergenerational welfare (seems odd that I have to do your research for you….), or the claim that people on welfare are teaching their children how to collect. Seems like the basis for this latest talking point is from some paper looking at the Norwegian system for evidence. I found a paper that dissects the data and finds fault with the conclusion . It's an interesting read…

The headline results seem pretty strong evidence for the ‘dependency culture’ idea – yet when you go further into the data, you see a very different picture:

The sample of data is restricted to parents with adult children at the time that the parents’ appeal decision is heard by a judge. These aren’t children growing up in a home where DI is received throughout childhood. In fact, they are at least 18 and likely older at the time the parent starts claiming DI

The authors find no evidence of the parents’ DI receipt affecting the adult child’s receipt of any other form of social assistance – which doesn’t fit the idea that there is a general reduction in the stigma of claiming benefits

http://inequalitiesblog.wordpress.com/2013/07/18/killer-evidence-for-intergenerational-welfare-dependency/

But you're welcome to google your own argument and provide data, stats or any 'facts' you have. I'm sure we'd be very interested in reading your sources.

Sept. 21, 2013, 1:59 p.m.
Posts: 2747
Joined: Feb. 15, 2003

But you're welcome to google your own argument and provide data, stats or any 'facts' you have. I'm sure we'd be very interested in reading your sources.

http://www.econ.brown.edu/econ/events/mogstad.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_poverty

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/07/09/president-obama-admits-welfare-encourages-dependency/

http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/21/opinion/spalding-welfare-state-dependency/index.html

http://www.baconsrebellion.com/2013/07/welfare-dependency-breeds-more-welfare-dependency.html

You and I will probably never agree on much politically, but maybe we can on this.

Our system is broken, something has to change,you cannot tax a society back to prosperity, and in order to give a government must first take.

Something has to bring jobs back to North America or we will only have a resource based economy to give us employment. Big predatory businesses like Walmart need to be punished somehow for forcing North American companies to source their goods from China. We don't need free trade, we need fair trade. Nations with huge duties on our goods need to have the same high duties on their exports at our borders.

Abolishing the Federal Reserve Banks and dissolving the military industrial complex would be a good start.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8y06NSBBRtY

http://www.scionofzion.com/federalreserve.htm

Sept. 21, 2013, 3:28 p.m.
Posts: 34321
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

It's not the lazy asses that suck the money out of the country - it's the Wall Street derivative manufacturers and the warmongers that sucked trillions of dollars out of the country.

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

Sept. 21, 2013, 3:37 p.m.
Posts: 2747
Joined: Feb. 15, 2003

It's not the lazy asses that suck the money out of the country - it's the Wall Street derivative manufacturers and the warmongers that sucked trillions of dollars out of the country.

it's both the lazy asses and the banksters.

Sept. 21, 2013, 3:52 p.m.
Posts: 344
Joined: May 2, 2009

More and more of my co-workers are feeling like they should just give up. Why should they work their asses off 11 hours a day so that everyone else can hunt, fish, ski, ride 4 wheelers, all day?

Damn, welfare must pay much better in the states. Or I'm misunderstanding your statement. Social Assistance in BC is six hundred dollars and change per month. If I made that much money, I'd be out collecting leaves to save on toilet paper, never mind putting fuel in the quad or whatever else. Not to say some people don't find ways to abuse the system, but the ministry has been doing extensive audits lately in an attempt to minimize that.

Sept. 21, 2013, 11:24 p.m.
Posts: 13932
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

http://www.econ.brown.edu/econ/events/mogstad.pdf

Yep. There we are, the paper that started the talking point.
Already linked, but that paper is flawed, or just a flat out misrepresentation of reality… http://inequalitiesblog.wordpress.com/2013/07/18/killer-evidence-for-intergenerational-welfare-dependency/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cycle_of_poverty

Oh come on. The cycle of poverty is not at all the same thing as:

The multi generational lazy assed welfare families

that you are suggesting is a major problem. Hell, the lead sentence in your reference is:

The cycle of poverty has been defined as a phenomenon where poor families become trapped in poverty for at least three generations,

…. Being trapped in poverty is not the same as generations of families choosing to live in welfare.

http://blog.heritage.org/2011/07/09/president-obama-admits-welfare-encourages-dependency/

OK, you're joking now right? Conservative thinktank blog editorial with no actual numbers, stats information…. although I love the conclusion

If President Obama is really serious about helping the poor, he must admit that the U.S. has a long ways to go in promoting work. And he must realize that the best way to fight poverty is through strong marriages.

http://www.baconsrebellion.com/2013/07/welfare-dependency-breeds-more-welfare-dependency.html

So…. this is a blog that is telling people about your first source. If you link to the 25 blogs all talking about 1 paper, it's still just one flawed paper.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand your point to be that giving healthcare to the poor is a bad idea because there is an abundance of lazy people that are teaching their children how to live off of the government teet on welfare from generation to generation. I'm waiting for real research, numbers or stats to back that up, or explain to me what you are actually trying to say.

Sept. 22, 2013, 5:26 a.m.
Posts: 2747
Joined: Feb. 15, 2003

See what's happening here, all my sources are wrong or flawed, where yours are not. It is impossible to have any type or reasonable discourse with anyone that's mind is shuttered as hard as yours is. You automatically dismiss any idea or report that doesn't alighn with your viewpoint.You are not trying to understand me at all, in fact you use a comment from another member to formulate your attack on me (quads [HTML_REMOVED] fishing). Yet you choose to ignore clear comments made on my position on healthcare and continue harping on questions already answered.

Your mind is made up, talking with you is like pushing a rope. The first research article you dismiss is from Brown University, a respected US College. It us almost laughable that sites and blogs you have used as sources over time are fine yet any source myself, or similar opined person cites is crap.

There is no point even trying any further to further this, your obvious, blatant , loathing and hatred of anyone that identifies themselves as a Christian Right thinker leaves you no credibility, none. You can respond to this or not, it will not be seen by me, but feel free to continue with your one sided attacks.

Take off the blinders

I am outta here, you all can keep your hate, and continue to drive away other members who's views vary from the blatantly obvious left wing cess pool of anti Christian bigotry that this place has become.

Whoever that last person here is, don't forget to turn out the lights :)

Sept. 22, 2013, 6:40 a.m.
Posts: 18446
Joined: May 29, 2004

I think the root here is that many "hard working americans" don't want to be forced into a system with folks that either don't/won't contribute or folks that tax the system by not taking care of themselves.

Reality is,american society is fucked on so many levels that healthcare doesn't even matter. its just an emotional issue that effectively divides people to the left or right.

Sept. 22, 2013, 6:45 a.m.
Posts: 18446
Joined: May 29, 2004

…and would it kill some of you to stop trying to be fucking right all of the time?

Sharing ideas doesn't have to be an arguement. You should know this if you have a job or marriage.

No wonder this place is becoming a ghost town.

Sept. 22, 2013, 6:58 a.m.
Posts: 18446
Joined: May 29, 2004

:canada:

Socialized medicine (or anything else for that matter) only works when a society wants to work hard as a whole for everyone's good. The problem is that there is a large portion of people down here that feel entitled to having the government take care of them so that they never have to work. That leaves fewer and fewer of us to pay the bill for more and more people happy to live on welfare, disability, food stamps, etc.

There needs to be a major change, both in the way the government spends money, and the people perception of what government exists to do. Otherwise, the first nation in history to truly be of the people, by the people and for the people, will show that the people as a whole are too fucking short sighted to lead themselves.

This is the plain truth. Even if "lefties" don't like it,that is the situation in much of the US and even parts of Canada.

Sept. 22, 2013, 7:38 a.m.
Posts: 11003
Joined: June 4, 2008

Sept. 22, 2013, 8:46 a.m.
Posts: 144
Joined: Oct. 23, 2003

So America is full of newfies?

Ha Ha! Made you look.

Sept. 22, 2013, 9:21 a.m.
Posts: 7707
Joined: Sept. 11, 2003

Part of the problem is that the notion of "healthcare" was built around treating acute illness/injuries like traumatic injury, infections, viral pandemic/epidemics, appendicitis, pneumonia etc. 60 years ago if you had cancer, nobody would know until it was probably too late, and even of they did, medical science did not know how to treat it.

The healthcare system now has to deal with chronic disease - stuff that happens/builds over years and decades, eg many types of cancers, high blood pressure, obesity, cardiovascular disease, adult-onset diabetes. And we have cures and treatments for just about everything. Yet, it is still built on the old delivery model. The possibility of early detection/diagnosis, the number of diagnosable conditions, number of possible treatments has ballooned, but the healthcare system is still founded on the acute disease model where someone gets wheeled into ER with a broken leg. Add to that the aging population clamoring for diagnosis and treatment and things don't look good. There are probably lots of changes that could be made, but it won't be easy or pleasant.

There needs to be a major change, both in the way the government spends money, and the people perception of what government exists to do. Otherwise, the first nation in history to truly be of the people, by the people and for the people, will show that the people as a whole are too fucking short sighted to lead themselves.

The problem with "the people" is that they tend to choose the government that does the best job of bribing them with their own money.

Sept. 22, 2013, 9:21 a.m.
Posts: 18446
Joined: May 29, 2004

So America is full of newfies?

Both myself and Splinky are newfs.

Sure you wanna travel down that road?

Sept. 22, 2013, 9:24 a.m.
Posts: 144
Joined: Oct. 23, 2003

Both myself and Splinky are newfs.

Sure you wanna travel down that road?

quit stealing all of Gran torinos hard earned money.

Ha Ha! Made you look.

Forum jump: