^^ He's only got 17 priors and had just threatened to kill the cabbie, so cut him some slack eh.
Police brutality.
Maybe the vpd would be best served to send FO into these calls and he could give them a hugs not drugs speech or something.
Posted by: Fast-Orange
I dont care what he did. He turned around to put his hands on the roof of the vehicle and they shot him with beanbags and sicced a dog on him.
Not so simple. Didn't comply with orders. Shot with a beanbag gun, still doesn't comply. Shot again, still not complying. Dog sent as last resort. If there wasn't a dog there they would have had to rush in and risk more harm to themselves and likely more harm to the individual if he kept resisting.
Now listen to the audio of that footage. Trying to do a job while being sworn at by the crowd. Super stressful.
Pro tip. Don't resist arrest and you will not get beanbagged, chomped on by a K9, or manhandled by the police. It just won't happen.
Last edited by: thefishtailbites on Nov. 25, 2022, 3:54 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Posted by: thefishtailbites
Posted by: Fast-Orange
I dont care what he did. He turned around to put his hands on the roof of the vehicle and they shot him with beanbags and sicced a dog on him.
Not so simple. Didn't comply with orders. Shot with a beanbag gun, still doesn't comply. Shot again, still not complying. Dog sent as last resort. If there wasn't a dog there they would have had to rush in and risk more harm to themselves and likely more harm to the individual if he kept resisting.
Now listen to the audio of that footage. Trying to do a job while being sworn at by the crowd. Super stressful.
Pro tip. Don't resist arrest and you will not get beanbagged, chomped on by a K9, or manhandled by the police. It just won't happen.
While I have no info about the case, and the internet is not really helpful I would like to add that your last statement iscan be true, does not have to be. This is a view that is too simple, sorry. And it is not true for all of the cases, worldwide. Does not matter whether we talk about North America or Europe, for example.....as you put it, "it just won't happen." is not true. It is an over-simplified generalization.
Not a comment on the incident in discussion but if I as a 60 something, law abiding, white male, feel intimidated and threatened by the police if I am forced to have an interaction with them, I cannot imagine how marginalised folk feel.
That whole "power intimidation" thing that comes across leads my brain to short circuit and I seriously worry about what would happen if I inadvertently made an unintentional "unacceptable" move.
Maybe if police were less focused on the "power" intimidation moves, they might get more community buy in, and maybe their job would be a little easier, and yes I get that there are situations where force might be needed, but is a show of potential brute force needed in every community interaction?
^^^
Yup, the general attitude in policing when dealing with someone who is presumed to have done something wrong seems to be to present an image of having power over anybody they interact with. Not all police act like this, but the go to seems to be that way. The problem with this style of policing is that people tend to respond in a defensive manner that may include some sort of aggression and it ultimately results in a negative interaction where people think poorly of the police. Even when dealing with police in a situation that does not involve any sort of suspicion, there still seems to be an underlying attitude of power-over the other individual where they are not treated as an equal but as someone who is lesser than.
I was living in a house that had about 8 wooden steps leading up to my porch at the front entrance when a cop came by and knocked on my door. I can't remember ever having the cops come to my door before that, but I knew it was a cop immediately just from the deliberate intimidating slow stomping that they often do. There was about a 10-second delay before he knocked as well. That is their style. They want you to be a little nervous.
Turns out he was just there to give me a ticket. Someone had called in and reported me for passing them on a double solid line and the guy must have had some serious clout for the RCMP to pay me a special visit for a traffic violation the police didn't even witness. That was a first too.
Posted by: GreyHead
Not a comment on the incident in discussion but if I as a 60 something, law abiding, white male, feel intimidated and threatened by the police if I am forced to have an interaction with them, I cannot imagine how marginalised folk feel.
That whole "power intimidation" thing that comes across leads my brain to short circuit and I seriously worry about what would happen if I inadvertently made an unintentional "unacceptable" move.
Maybe if police were less focused on the "power" intimidation moves, they might get more community buy in, and maybe their job would be a little easier, and yes I get that there are situations where force might be needed, but is a show of potential brute force needed in every community interaction?
I think that a perfect example of the 'power intimidation' thing is the Daniel Shaver shooting. Daniel was showing an air rifle to two friends in his hotel room, he was seen with it by a bystander and reported to the police.
It's worth mentioning as well that the cop was tried, acquitted, medically retired and is still receiving his pension.
Warning: The video cuts off before Shaver is shot and killed, but is nonetheless disturbing.
Last edited by: Schnickelfritz on Dec. 1, 2022, 4:13 p.m., edited 2 times in total.
Posted by: Mic
Posted by: thefishtailbites
Posted by: Fast-Orange
I dont care what he did. He turned around to put his hands on the roof of the vehicle and they shot him with beanbags and sicced a dog on him.
Not so simple. Didn't comply with orders. Shot with a beanbag gun, still doesn't comply. Shot again, still not complying. Dog sent as last resort. If there wasn't a dog there they would have had to rush in and risk more harm to themselves and likely more harm to the individual if he kept resisting.
Now listen to the audio of that footage. Trying to do a job while being sworn at by the crowd. Super stressful.
Pro tip. Don't resist arrest and you will not get beanbagged, chomped on by a K9, or manhandled by the police. It just won't happen.
While I have no info about the case, and the internet is not really helpful I would like to add that your last statement iscan be true, does not have to be. This is a view that is too simple, sorry. And it is not true for all of the cases, worldwide. Does not matter whether we talk about North America or Europe, for example.....as you put it, "it just won't happen." is not true. It is an over-simplified generalization.
Yes it's a simple view. However, I'll repeat I have seen the VPD arrest/escort off property bad dudes so many times while exhibiting professionalism and restraint to a tee.
The story painted here was that cops are out to kick citizens asses for fun and I just haven't seen that to find it truthful.
Most definitely.
Posted by: GreyHead
Not a comment on the incident in discussion but if I as a 60 something, law abiding, white male, feel intimidated and threatened by the police if I am forced to have an interaction with them, I cannot imagine how marginalised folk feel.
That whole "power intimidation" thing that comes across leads my brain to short circuit and I seriously worry about what would happen if I inadvertently made an unintentional "unacceptable" move.
Maybe if police were less focused on the "power" intimidation moves, they might get more community buy in, and maybe their job would be a little easier, and yes I get that there are situations where force might be needed, but is a show of potential brute force needed in every community interaction?
I think it's actually very normal to feel anxious in those situations. I get similar jitters going through customs (my knees get shaky.) However I'm aware I'm not doing anything wrong so nothings gonna happen.
Posted by: thefishtailbites
Posted by: GreyHead
Not a comment on the incident in discussion but if I as a 60 something, law abiding, white male, feel intimidated and threatened by the police if I am forced to have an interaction with them, I cannot imagine how marginalised folk feel.
That whole "power intimidation" thing that comes across leads my brain to short circuit and I seriously worry about what would happen if I inadvertently made an unintentional "unacceptable" move.
Maybe if police were less focused on the "power" intimidation moves, they might get more community buy in, and maybe their job would be a little easier, and yes I get that there are situations where force might be needed, but is a show of potential brute force needed in every community interaction?
I think it's actually very normal to feel anxious in those situations. I get similar jitters going through customs (my knees get shaky.) However I'm aware I'm not doing anything wrong so nothings gonna happen.
I fully understand the anxiety that most people feel when having to deal with law enforcement, whether at the airport or in traffic. Most people deal with law enforcement based on their personality, the stories they have heard, and because of the issue that syncro mentioned. To put it very simple, it might have to do with the general feeling of helplessness and of being not in control but at the whim/mercy of a person in power.
Again, as with your above statement on routine checks or arrests, you are assuming that police officers abide by the law or are aware that they are representing law enforcement and thus need restraint themselves. And most police officers or border patrol seem to do so, it is the many rotten apples that are the issue, and your perspective might be a bit naive, I fear.
There have been literally thousands of cases when officers abused their power, and I am not talking about dictatorships, authoritarian states or failed states such as the Philippines, Iran, or Mexico, but about countries like Germany, France, the UK - or the US. Countries where the ordinary citizens think that they have nothing to fear from law enforcement. In many of these cases, the people who were wrongfully mistreated did not do anything wrong either. The usual line of argumentation in such cases is "That is just an exception to the rule, a single case of a misbehvaing officers..., we got nothing to worry about."
But this is simply not true, as soon as a person fits into a certain "box", hairdo, clothes, tattoos, skin color, perceived "attitude", place or time, this person might be in trouble despite their innocence.
Example of one: Check a software called Pallantir and what happened in Los Angeles county. I think we once even talked about it on here.
I could continue with examples from demonstrations here in Germany, where brute force was used by law enforcement on senior citizens and children, or the many cases of different treatment because of skin color or residential status, heck - why are many FN in Canada wary of the RCMP?
Another example, each and every traffic control or routine check I have to face is always the same, I am tattooed and wear dreads, despite not doing any drugs and working as a teacher. The reactions are always the same. Always. And have not really changed in almost 30 years since I was a skateboarding teenager. And I fully understand their perspective - based on statistics, I am the odd one out.
Still, I honestly think that a democratic and civil society should have police officers and law enforcement that can be checked from institutions independent from them. Society should be able to do better.
And how come that the reaction to police officers is the same almost everywhere, universally?
Give a person a uniform and see how they change and transform into something different over time.
Last edited by: Mic on Dec. 2, 2022, 2:36 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Posted by: thefishtailbites
I think it's actually very normal to feel anxious in those situations. I get similar jitters going through customs (my knees get shaky.) However I'm aware I'm not doing anything wrong so nothings gonna happen.
Maybe I wasn't clear in my post. " if I as a 60 something, law abiding, white male, feel intimidated and threatened by the police if I am forced to have an interaction with them, I cannot imagine how marginalised folk feel. "
Mic seems to get the gist of my message.
Put yourself in the shoes of the marginalised folk. They don't "fit" the good guy stereotype, so they are significantly at risk even if they have done nothing wrong. except as Mic puts it " fits into a certain "box", hairdo, clothes, tattoos, skin color, perceived "attitude", place or time, this person might be in trouble despite their innocence".
I've travelled through many and lived in several countries, and without exception, north american police and border authorities cause me the most extreme mental concerns. If that's the case for an "innocent" grey haired old man, spare a thought for those who might be in the "box of concern".
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