Police brutality.

Posted by: Fast-Orange

Posted by: thefishtailbites

I work in a sketchy area of Vancouver and have seen only seen professionalism by the VPD. Not kidding.

Even being threatened with violence they remain calm and poised. Quite impressive to watch. I couldn't/wouldn't do it even for the large salary they make.

Did you even look into the details of how Myles Gray was killed?

They handcuffed his hands and his legs then proceeded to break nearly every bone in his body after he was helpless and unable to threaten them in any way. They crushed his voice box and stomped his crotch until his scrotum ripped open. Then they kept the identities of the pigs hidden for 6 years and not a single charge was laid on any of them.

But yeah yeah keep repeating the same tired bootlicking talking points about how great pigs are.

I did and can't make the same conclusions as yourself.  I wasn't there so don't know how the individual was acting/resisting.  I can see how you came to that view from reading the details but I think there is more to the story.  I don't believe cops murdered a guy for the heck of it.

I was on a plane once.  Huge guy started acting crazy.  Plane landed.  4 RCMP came on the plane to take away crazy guy.  Crazy guy swatted them away like flies.  Police tasered crazy guy many times on the plane and it just pissed him off.  He ran off the plane into Toronto airport.  Point is it is not easy to chill out someone with just words/minor force.

I agree with Syncro there are some bad apples and the union is strong.  However, I've only seen professionalism and I've seen a lot of interactions that could have gotten nasty, especially with threats against the police.

Posted by: switch

The guy was on drugs and strongly resisted arrest.

Try reading the report instead of blurring out sensationalist bullshit.

His hand and legs were fucking cuffed. That's a fact

Only one of his wrists was cuffed, and he was hobbled.  But that didn't stop him from very aggressively resist arrest.

You can read the report here:

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/law-crime-and-justice/criminal-justice/prosecution-service/media-statements/2020/20-16-no-charge-clear-statement-myles-gray-death-2015.pdf

Posted by: switch

Only one of his wrists was cuffed, and he was hobbled. But that didn't stop him from very aggressively resist arrest.

You can read the report here:

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/law-crime-and-justice/criminal-justice/prosecution-service/media-statements/2020/20-16-no-charge-clear-statement-myles-gray-death-2015.pdf

You might resist too once you realized the cops plan was to kill you.

I stopped reading when I saw they actually used the "excited delirium" excuse. 

Excited delirium doesn't exist its literally something cops made up to justify their actions when they wrongfully kill someone.

Posted by: Fast-Orange

Posted by: switch

Only one of his wrists was cuffed, and he was hobbled. But that didn't stop him from very aggressively resist arrest.

You can read the report here:

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/law-crime-and-justice/criminal-justice/prosecution-service/media-statements/2020/20-16-no-charge-clear-statement-myles-gray-death-2015.pdf

You might resist too once you realized the cops plan was to kill you.

I stopped reading when I saw they actually used the "excited delirium" excuse. 

Excited delirium doesn't exist its literally something cops made up to justify their actions when they wrongfully kill someone.

Actually Fast, excited delirium is a very real thing. I have experienced it first hand. A couple of years ago I had a grand maul seizure while out for a ride with the boys. While in the post seizure fog I got quite violent while some bystanders were trying to hold me down, ( wrong thing to do by the way ). I was violent to the point that attending fire and ambulance personnel had to pin me down and sedate me to get me in the ambulance. So I can imagine what someone who is whacked out on drugs could be. I’m not necessarily supporting the police actions but excited delirium could definitely be a contributing factor.

Posted by: FLATCH

Actually Fast, excited delirium is a very real thing. I have experienced it first hand. A couple of years ago I had a grand maul seizure while out for a ride with the boys. While in the post seizure fog I got quite violent while some bystanders were trying to hold me down, ( wrong thing to do by the way ). I was violent to the point that attending fire and ambulance personnel had to pin me down and sedate me to get me in the ambulance. So I can imagine what someone who is whacked out on drugs could be. I’m not necessarily supporting the police actions but excited delirium could definitely be a contributing factor.

Not supporting police actions. But to be honest I now strongly suspect that there is a number of ways and medical conditions or illnesses that in the right situation can cause huge problems like a serious fight reflex.  And the person going through that will not even be aware of what is exactly going on. Because reality is there is a huge amount we don't know about how our brain reacts to certain things.

Posted by: FLATCH

Posted by: Fast-Orange

Posted by: switch

Only one of his wrists was cuffed, and he was hobbled. But that didn't stop him from very aggressively resist arrest.

You can read the report here:

https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/law-crime-and-justice/criminal-justice/prosecution-service/media-statements/2020/20-16-no-charge-clear-statement-myles-gray-death-2015.pdf

You might resist too once you realized the cops plan was to kill you.

I stopped reading when I saw they actually used the "excited delirium" excuse.

Excited delirium doesn't exist its literally something cops made up to justify their actions when they wrongfully kill someone.

Actually Fast, excited delirium is a very real thing. I have experienced it first hand. A couple of years ago I had a grand maul seizure while out for a ride with the boys. While in the post seizure fog I got quite violent while some bystanders were trying to hold me down, ( wrong thing to do by the way ). I was violent to the point that attending fire and ambulance personnel had to pin me down and sedate me to get me in the ambulance. So I can imagine what someone who is whacked out on drugs could be. I’m not necessarily supporting the police actions but excited delirium could definitely be a contributing factor.

You didn't have excited delirium you had a seizure. Interesting nobody ever calls it excited delirium unless it's to explain someone dying in police custody. It's also interesting they were able to restrain and sedate you without beating you to death in the process.

https://www.ama-assn.org/press-center/press-releases/new-ama-policy-opposes-excited-delirium-diagnosis

They killed Myles because he pissed them off and they had him an a backyard with no witnesses. For half those officers this wasn't even the first time they had brutalized people. They already had a history of violent and abusive behavior.

This is a good listen on the history of "excited delerium" it's origin and how it's been used. It's not a behavioral diagnosis it's a cause of death diagnosis. I.e. "he didn't die because we beat him mercilessly, he died because the drugs made his heart stop"

https://open.spotify.com/episode/4kIpMGMBFLcjpDyHVOhnde?si=a4cApemgRWyjXdzOH69TiA&utm_source=copy-link

It's sad that Myles Gray died in the presence of up to 7 police officers that may have had a hand in his death. Besides his death, there are two things that really stand out for me in this incident. The first is a combination of factors that seems to come down to faulty training and lack of proper resources, both of which are structural issues. It is well known that there are structural issues within the VPD - as with most police forces - and there are plenty of examples to support this. Myles Gray is not the first person to die in a police interaction and I'm sure he won't be last. The second thing, which is also a structural issue and is clearly evident in the report that switch linked to, is that the VPD lacks integrity when is comes to dealing with issues of officer misconduct. The VPD's first priority seems to be to protect it's own, and not to find the truth. The fact that seven officers were present and that their version of events was inconsistent and often contradictory says that the people that were there were not willing to tell the truth and were more interested in hiding or obfuscating the truth in order to protect themselves from criminal charges and possible dismissal. An officer that is more interested in covering their own ass instead of finding truth and acting in the best interest of the public does not deserve to wear the uniform.

Individual officers can and often do great work and the force as a whole often does great work, but the message the VPD keeps sending to the public via incidents like this is that the VPD cannot be trusted as they are more interested in protecting themselves than the public at large.

Posted by: Fast-Orange

You didn't have excited delirium you had a seizure. 

Thanks for being dismissive of someone's medical situation and what he describes as his reaction during what was clearly for him a medical crisis.  Reality is during a medical crisis people can and do react very different then what we delude ourselves what the narrative should be. But hey if we cared that much you all would be fighting for the other services to available before we get to that point.

Posted by: Endurimil

Posted by: Fast-Orange

You didn't have excited delirium you had a seizure. 

Thanks for being dismissive of someone's medical situation and what he describes as his reaction during what was clearly for him a medical crisis.  Reality is during a medical crisis people can and do react very different then what we delude ourselves what the narrative should be. But hey if we cared that much you all would be fighting for the other services to available before we get to that point.

He's still alive isn't he? Excited delirium is a cause of death diagnosis.

Posted by: Fast-Orange

Posted by: thefishtailbites

I work in a sketchy area of Vancouver and have seen only seen professionalism by the VPD. Not kidding.

Even being threatened with violence they remain calm and poised. Quite impressive to watch. I couldn't/wouldn't do it even for the large salary they make.

Did you even look into the details of how Myles Gray was killed?

They handcuffed his hands and his legs then proceeded to break nearly every bone in his body after he was helpless and unable to threaten them in any way. They crushed his voice box and stomped his crotch until his scrotum ripped open. Then they kept the identities of the pigs hidden for 6 years and not a single charge was laid on any of them.

But yeah yeah keep repeating the same tired bootlicking talking points about how great pigs are.

Dude, you need to get on your bike more.  Fishtail told us what they have seen personally.  That is not a talking point.  For what it is worth I have never trusted the VPD, but that doesn't mean there are not good people in their ranks trying to do good in a very messed up community.

Posted by: syncro

It's sad that Myles Gray died in the presence of up to 7 police officers that may have had a hand in his death. Besides his death, there are two things that really stand out for me in this incident. The first is a combination of factors that seems to come down to faulty training and lack of proper resources, both of which are structural issues. It is well known that there are structural issues within the VPD - as with most police forces - and there are plenty of examples to support this. Myles Gray is not the first person to die in a police interaction and I'm sure he won't be last. The second thing, which is also a structural issue and is clearly evident in the report that switch linked to, is that the VPD lacks integrity when is comes to dealing with issues of officer misconduct. The VPD's first priority seems to be to protect it's own, and not to find the truth. The fact that seven officers were present and that their version of events was inconsistent and often contradictory says that the people that were there were not willing to tell the truth and were more interested in hiding or obfuscating the truth in order to protect themselves from criminal charges and possible dismissal. An officer that is more interested in covering their own ass instead of finding truth and acting in the best interest of the public does not deserve to wear the uniform.

Individual officers can and often do great work and the force as a whole often does great work, but the message the VPD keeps sending to the public via incidents like this is that the VPD cannot be trusted as they are more interested in protecting themselves than the public at large.

I can't see how mandatory body cams and a fully independent federal organization that handles police misconduct couldn't solve this.  If the police were investigated with the same enthusiasm as any other crime from the general public it would at least bring about some justice.  They need better screening as well.  There are 2 types of people that become cops.  Those that want to help their community and bring criminals to justice, and those that like power.  It can't be that hard to ID the latter before giving these psychos a badge and a gun.  Just talking to people who went to high school with them would probably red-flag half of the power-tripping assholes.  My wife knew a kid a few years older than her who chased her and her brothers around with a machete when they were around 12 years old (he was probably 14).  She remembers how much he loved scaring the shit out of them and making them cry.  He became a cop.  I doubt she was the only kid that experienced his cruelty and a history of bullying should be an instant fail.

Posted by: chupacabra

Posted by: syncro

It's sad that Myles Gray died in the presence of up to 7 police officers that may have had a hand in his death. Besides his death, there are two things that really stand out for me in this incident. The first is a combination of factors that seems to come down to faulty training and lack of proper resources, both of which are structural issues. It is well known that there are structural issues within the VPD - as with most police forces - and there are plenty of examples to support this. Myles Gray is not the first person to die in a police interaction and I'm sure he won't be last. The second thing, which is also a structural issue and is clearly evident in the report that switch linked to, is that the VPD lacks integrity when is comes to dealing with issues of officer misconduct. The VPD's first priority seems to be to protect it's own, and not to find the truth. The fact that seven officers were present and that their version of events was inconsistent and often contradictory says that the people that were there were not willing to tell the truth and were more interested in hiding or obfuscating the truth in order to protect themselves from criminal charges and possible dismissal. An officer that is more interested in covering their own ass instead of finding truth and acting in the best interest of the public does not deserve to wear the uniform.

Individual officers can and often do great work and the force as a whole often does great work, but the message the VPD keeps sending to the public via incidents like this is that the VPD cannot be trusted as they are more interested in protecting themselves than the public at large.

I can't see how mandatory body cams and a fully independent federal organization that handles police misconduct couldn't solve this.  If the police were investigated with the same enthusiasm as any other crime from the general public it would at least bring about some justice.  They need better screening as well.  There are 2 types of people that become cops.  Those that want to help their community and bring criminals to justice, and those that like power.  It can't be that hard to ID the latter before giving these psychos a badge and a gun.  Just talking to people who went to high school with them would probably red-flag half of the power-tripping assholes.  My wife knew a kid a few years older than her who chased her and her brothers around with a machete when they were around 12 years old (he was probably 14).  She remembers how much he loved scaring the shit out of them and making them cry.  He became a cop.  I doubt she was the only kid that experienced his cruelty and a history of bullying should be an instant fail.

They do identify the two types and the power tripping assholes are preferred in the hiring process. Then they are trained to view the general public as a constant threat and to put their own safety above ours in every situation. The kind of accountability measures you suggest would never be accepted by police unions.

Posted by: chupacabra

the slightest chance that a cop might break a nail > An innocent person's life

What happened chup? You were so much cooler 5 years ago.