Posted by: Couch_Surfer
What if he goes home and passes out on his couch?
Yeah that could happen too, but we just don’t know which is why I say playing the game of what if’s is a bit of a fools errand. There’s no easy answer.
Police brutality.
Posted by: chupacabra
Posted by: syncro
Posted by: chupacabra
Posted by: syncro
So what about the Rayshard Brooks shooting? How does that one fit into everyone's ideas of police brutality?
Unless the guy running away is an imminent threat to the public, I don't see why cops should ever pull a gun and fire. Or get into a car chase. They could have just gone looking for him later if they are too slow to catch a guy drunk off his ass. It's not like they didn't know who he was. I also don't see why anyone should have to be cuffed and taken in for a DUI. They could take his keys and call him a cab. Charge him later.
I am willing to bet that the majority of cases where death was avoidable go 2 ways. One is like George Floyd where they use overuse force to restrain people and the other is where they use their gun when their hearts are pumping and they can't think straight. If white-collar criminals don't need to be cuffed and hauled away to a cell they can do the same for other non-violent crimes.
Well he had pulled a taser off the one less experienced officer and turned and fired it at the officer who shot him while he was running away. I don't agree with the shooting, but under those circumstances and depending on the training and experience of the office I can see them using lethal force.
Re the DUI the police had been pretty good with him and he had been co-operative up until the point they tried to cuff him. Brooks was a recently paroled felon and would have been going back to the clink if arrested fur DUI. I would guess that's why he tried to run, which wasn't really a smart decision. Considering he was buzzed at least it's no surprise to me that panic took over and he tried to bolt. In terms of the officer pursuing him, well he took a taser off of one guy and the officers were at that point more than likely informed of Brook's recent parole status so I would guess at that point they didn't have much choice but to pursue him. So Brooks was fucker either way, whether they took him in on the spot or let him go to pick him up later - he was going back to jail. Did he deserve to die? No. But what are officers supposed to do in that situation? You can't just let the guy go. Maybe they should have called for more backup before they tried to arrest him so he couldn't bolt?
It's a shitty situation and in the current climate is being treated as another cop killing a black man. I tend to think this situation is far more nuanced than that and I don't know if there is a right answer on what should have been done. I would guess based on the vids if Brooks had just accepted his fate and let the officers arrest him he would still be alive today. He clearly didn't want to do that tho. I would also guess that Brooks would still be alive if there had been more cops and he was fighting to get away, but you never know in that situation. Brooks looks like he was a bigger guy, over 6ft and 200lbs so he wouldn't have been easy to coral. Trying to pin down a larger human who is hopped up on adrenaline and basically fighting for his life is not an easy thing to do. He for sure would have been hurt in some way, maybe he dies in that situation too.
White collar criminals seem to accept their fate and let officers take them in. It seems that most criminals who are from the streets tend t fight to get away. I would guess if you ran the stats that for arrests or police contact, people who put up a fight and try to flee have a much higher incidence of injury or death than for people who don't.
I think they can let him let go. They had no reason to believe he was a threat to the general public and if they just pursued him or picked him up later the situation could have easily been de-escalated by then. The police use the taser as a non-lethal weapon so I also can't see how they can view it in the criminal's hands as anything but a non-lethal weapon as well. IMO, lethal force only makes sense if the lives of the police are in danger or the lives of the public are in danger. This man was only armed with a non-lethal taser with no more shots left.
There is this idea that if someone flees the police they are required to stop them at all costs. That is why I brought up car chases. In this incident, the cop also shot a car with innocent people in it and in that moment he became a far greater threat to the public than Brooks. They knew who he was, so what is the downside to letting him flee other than the feeling that he should be taken in immediately for what he did?
Not non lethal! Less lethal, there’s a huge difference. And how is he not a threat to the public? This guy was so impaired he passed out behind the wheel. He tries to assault an officer with the officers own taser ffs! In what universe is he not a threat to the public. I thought I was a snow flake, fuck me! Sure he might have gone back to his room and slept it off. Or out of desperation he violently car jacks someone and kills an innocent single mother while running a red light. It’s somewhat of their own making but nowadays everyone wants to blame the cops. Take away hind sight and what if’s, put yourself in the moment and in their shoes.
The shame here is the fact a new or junior officer was on patrol by himself. That’s poor management.
Last edited by: FLATCH on June 24, 2020, 6:48 p.m., edited 3 times in total.
The first office being junior had nothing to do with what occurred.
Last edited by: switch on June 24, 2020, 8:39 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Posted by: switch
The first office being junior had nothing to do with what occurred.
You don’t think so? He was the one that lost the taser and when I first watched the vid I saw it coming considering the way he had it deployed and how they were trying to restrain Brooks.
Posted by: switch
The first office being junior had nothing to do with what occurred.
There must be two versions of the of the videos because we can’t possibly be watching the same ones.
Posted by: FLATCH
Posted by: chupacabra
I think they can let him let go. They had no reason to believe he was a threat to the general public and if they just pursued him or picked him up later the situation could have easily been de-escalated by then. The police use the taser as a non-lethal weapon so I also can't see how they can view it in the criminal's hands as anything but a non-lethal weapon as well. IMO, lethal force only makes sense if the lives of the police are in danger or the lives of the public are in danger. This man was only armed with a non-lethal taser with no more shots left.
There is this idea that if someone flees the police they are required to stop them at all costs. That is why I brought up car chases. In this incident, the cop also shot a car with innocent people in it and in that moment he became a far greater threat to the public than Brooks. They knew who he was, so what is the downside to letting him flee other than the feeling that he should be taken in immediately for what he did?
Not non lethal! Less lethal, there’s a huge difference. And how is he not a threat to the public? This guy was so impaired he passed out behind the wheel. He tries to assault an officer with the officers own taser ffs! In what universe is he not a threat to the public. I thought I was a snow flake, fuck me! Sure he might have gone back to his room and slept it off. Or out of desperation he violently car jacks someone and kills an innocent single mother while running a red light. It’s somewhat of their own making but nowadays everyone wants to blame the cops. Take away hind sight and what if’s, put yourself in the moment and in their shoes.
The shame here is the fact a new or junior officer was on patrol by himself. That’s poor management.
I think you are jumping to conclusions a bit here and thinking like a scared cop. He was on parole and went into flight or fight mode when his drunk mind decided to escape the police. He didn't have his car anymore. That doesn't mean he would beat up an old lady while he was running through the neighborhood. Syncro covered this when we went through the what-ifs, and my point wasn't that the cops should have just let him go on with his day, but they knew his criminal record by the time he ran and would have had a very good idea of the threat he posed so the question at that point isn't just "Could he possibly be a threat?", it was "Is he a big enough threat over the next hours to days that the best decision is to kill him now?". The question of whether firing their weapon in a parking lot with civilians should have gone through his head as well.
It is all risk management and I didn't say he wasn't a threat, I said they had no reason to believe he would be, or at least for as long as it would typically take to track him down.
Well chup, I think for a change we are going to disagree.
Remember the days when the death penalty was reserved for murders who sat on death row for years? Now the death penalty goes for anyone it seems. Crazy times.
Posted by: FLATCH
Well chup, I think for a change we are going to disagree.
No worries, it's a conversation and I am not a cop so I have no first-hand experience, I just think that something needs to change. When I see a guy shot in the back it makes me think there has to be a better way. His kids now don't have a dad and the cycle continues. Maybe they need something that shoots a tracker in the perp's ass, or weapons with tech so only they can fire them. There are just so many videos where I see someone shot and killed and all I can think is "Was that worth it? What were the risks of not pulling the trigger vs pulling it?"
Freedom of contract. We sell them guns that kill them; they sell us drugs that kill us.
just, no words....
That is so gross. The pain of that woman jumping up and down knowing she just watched him get murdered is hard to watch. Fuck.
Posted by: chupacabra
That is so gross. The pain of that woman jumping up and down knowing she just watched him get murdered is hard to watch. Fuck.
Looks like he's alive and in stable condition, so lucky he's alive omg.
Posted by: T-mack
Posted by: chupacabra
That is so gross. The pain of that woman jumping up and down knowing she just watched him get murdered is hard to watch. Fuck.
Looks like he's alive and in stable condition, so lucky he's alive omg.
I was shocked to hear he's alive. Not only are those cops complete chicken shits with absofuckinglutely horrible judgement, but they are also pathetic shots considering they shot at someone 7 times from just a few feet away and the guy is alive - thankfully. As police officers, they are a complete embarrassment to law enforcement officials everywhere. IMO these two cops aren't even qualified to write parking tickets, never mind anything above that.
I heard he was alive this morning. They must have hired those cops from out of work storm troopers. With America already outraged and these total idiots just fan the flames with their callous incompetence.
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