pending teachers strike, BCTF and the gov't

Finland leads in education. The reason is rigorous research based teacher education programs.

^ I think his tongue might've been in his cheek on that one. Or on the world wide weebz, is it finger in the keyboard???

^ I think his tongue might've been in his cheek on that one. Or on the world wide weebz, is it finger in the keyboard???

i realize that, but the basis of the point is still absurd. maybe as a society we need to ask ourselves whay we don't place a higher value on the work of teachers? in essence this is saying we don't value our children or future generations enough to educate them as best we can.

Exactly. Our society values short term gain and always has. (case in point - global warming) And yes, when you compare a hockey player to a teacher, it is absurd. It's not an "argument" Sychro, it's more explaining a simplified way of why it is the way it is.

All that being said, I believe that if teachers held all the cards they would expect to receive more and more compensation and benefits, while doing less and less - and if the BC Gov't held all the cards, teachers would be minimum waged employees with nothing. There's a middle ground that either side can't seem to find, nor have found since I remember my Dad's first strike in the early 80's, and then through every gov't. (Cons, Libs, NDP)

Exactly. Our society values short term gain and always has. (case in point - global warming) And yes, when you compare a hockey player to a teacher, it is absurd. It's not an "argument" Sychro, it's more explaining a simplified way of why it is the way it is.

All that being said, I believe that if teachers held all the cards they would expect to receive more and more compensation and benefits, while doing less and less - and if the BC Gov't held all the cards, teachers would be minimum waged employees with nothing. There's a middle ground that either side can't seem to find, nor have found since I remember my Dad's first strike in the early 80's, and then through every gov't. (Cons, Libs, NDP)

you seemed to present that as your point, that the teachers are asking for too much. and do you really believe in your second statement? that teachers want to get as much as possible for as little work as possible? if you do i don't think you have a good understanding of why so many teachers teach despite your dad being one.

i realize that, but the basis of the point is still absurd. maybe as a society we need to ask ourselves whay we don't place a higher value on the work of teachers? in essence this is saying we don't value our children or future generations enough to educate them as best we can.

We don't value our children enough. North Americas gypo lifestyle is coming round full circle to bite us in the ass, we want everything on the cheap, including educating youth!

As a single male with zero children, Im shocked when I hear people with children complain about how much teachers make, how high their taxes are, etc.

Finland leads in education. The reason is rigorous research based teacher education programs.

I wonder how many FSL kids Finnish teachers deal with … about 25% of BC school students speak a primary language at home other than English.

There is no good reason to bargain in good faith cuz is no loss of "production" if/when there is teacher job action, the only thing you can take to the bank IS … the province actualy just saves money they would have paid in teacher salary

All that being said, I believe that if teachers held all the cards they would expect to receive more and more compensation and benefits, while doing less and less - and if the BC Gov't held all the cards, teachers would be minimum waged employees with nothing. There's a middle ground that either side can't seem to find, nor have found since I remember my Dad's first strike in the early 80's, and then through every gov't. (Cons, Libs, NDP)

I think everyone probably wants more compensation if they can get it and if the BCTF wasn't asking for it during a negotiation then they really suck at their job.

Currently there is no middle ground. The Liberals want education to cost less today than it did yesterday so teachers and students will lose one way or the other. Whether it is wages, class sizes, text books, it is all on the slash list.

I wonder how many FSL kids Finnish teachers deal with … about 25% of BC school students speak a primary language at home other than English.

I am sure they have less than we do, but that is just something else we have to deal with. Actually having a plan from the government and the money to back it up would help but I am not holding my breath.

Regardless of our unique issues, better trained teachers are better. If you look at Finland, stripping the universities of the ability to certify teachers and starting over by only allowing a select few offer serious programs was the only major change they made but it did take a while to see the results.

you seemed to present that as your point, that the teachers are asking for too much. and do you really believe in your second statement? that teachers want to get as much as possible for as little work as possible? if you do i don't think you have a good understanding of why so many teachers teach despite your dad being one.

I never alluded to teachers asking for too much. Don't know where you grabbed that from. Also, I didn't mean that they want as much for as little but it is human nature to push and push for more. (like Chupacabra said) What's stopping them from thinking they deserve as much as a doctor makes? There needs to be checks and balances. Unfortunately both sides have pushed so much and so hard that entire slate has to be wiped clean because of years of habit. I have a very good understanding of why so many teachers want to teach. I know many many teachers and have many family members as teachers. Guess what? Some go in for the vacations, some go in because it's the best thing they can do with an arts degree, some never made it as far as they would have liked to in the professional world and some do it because they think they can actually make an affect in a child's life. There are many reasons, just like there are many terrible teachers and many good ones and many OK ones.

fair enough, but the posts you've presented seem to be on the side of the teachers are asking for too much.

i disagree though that the slate needs to be wiped clean. in terms of teaching resources, things have gradually been clawed back so the teachers need to push hard just to get back to a reasonable or similar level of a few decades ago, never mind trying to get ahead.

that's the crux of the issue, i don't think the avg person on the street realizes the current state of the education system.

fair enough, but the posts you've presented seem to be on the side of the teachers are asking for too much.

i disagree though that the slate needs to be wiped clean. in terms of teaching resources, things have gradually been clawed back so the teachers need to push hard just to get back to a reasonable or similar level of a few decades ago, never mind trying to get ahead.

that's the crux of the issue, i don't think the avg person on the street realizes the current state of the education system.

But they were striking and complaining a few decades ago too. It wasn't the good ol' days. But admittedly, it also wasn't as bad as some over stuffed classrooms now. Wiping the slate clean, i meant that there has been such a mentality of the gov'ts taking, taking, taking and the teachers pushing pushing pushing for more. Now it's such an exaggerated mess that kids and their parents are really losing out.

Go Finland!

Seems to me we're in a pretty messed up society that wants to pay someone more for pushing a plastic piece of rubber around on a slab of ice that has no consequences on anything the moment the game is over than those that are tasked with educating our kids.

You are thinking of this too narrowly . . . there are two questions you need to ask:
1. "what is the average teacher's salary, and what is the average hockey players salary?"
2. "Then, why do we pay the best hockey players $1 million per year, but the best teachers the same as the worst?"

1. There are about 1.1 million hockey players in North America. Total NHL payroll in 2012 was about $1.8 billion. The average North American hockey player is paid about $1,600 each. Mind you, there are about 1.1 million paid $0 and a few hundred paid in the millions, but, the average hockey player salary is quite low. I'm not even going to try to put any accuracy to the 'average' teacher's salary, I understand there are all sorts of grids and the such. But, to pick a number, let's say it's $60,000. So, the average teacher in BC makes 37.5x more than the average hockey player.

2. We pay the best hockey players more because, well, it's a merit based system in an open market. They put bums in the seats, sell TV ads, sell jerseys, etc…. they then create a whole lot of jobs for other people. Nobody would pay $200 a ticket to watch an 'average' hockey player.

If teachers worked on a merit based system, an argument could be made to pay the best teachers a lot more and the worst teachers much less. In fact, there is nothing stopping a private school from paying a teacher $1 million, so long as the student's parents see value in it. If they want to hire Stephen Hawking, pay him millions and charge crazy high tuition, they certainly can.

Your point was well intended, but much too narrow of a focus. You were comparing the 'top performing hockey players' against the 'average teacher'. You had to compare the average to the average.