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pending teachers strike, BCTF and the gov't

May 25, 2014, 2:20 p.m.
Posts: 14448
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

so seeing as this sentiment seems to be one touted by the anti-teacher side (for lack of a better description) what percentage of teachers do you think are bad wood, the teachers who are not pulling their weight or not doing the minimum?

i've talked to a few teachers and asked them that question and i bet the answer i got would be very different from the one you might come up with, even accounting for bias. they also gave very valid reasons as to why they think those numbers are they way they are. so if you're going to use that argument maybe back it up with some numbers even if they are just a guess.

on another front and realted to your post, not all teacher's are making the upper levels of pay, quite the opposite in fact.

I'm not anti teacher. I'm anti union.

It's irrelevant how many are not pulling their weight. I disagree with a blanket increase across the board.

I further disagree with a 15% 5 year deal. The government has offered the teachers the same increase (5% 5 year if I recall correctly) that has been offered (and accepted) by the other public sector employees to date (well see what the nurses union does soon enough). Sorry, but given that the economy is flat, that there is a surplus of applicants and that there is little appetite for a tax increase, I think that BCTF position (with respect to pay) is unrealistic and absurd.

If the BCTF says at any point: Fine, we'll take the same wage deal as other public sector workers, but class size/composition is now our only issue, I think the discussion would be much different

May 25, 2014, 2:33 p.m.
Posts: 1922
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

I'm not anti teacher. I'm anti union.

It's irrelevant how many are not pulling their weight. I disagree with a blanket increase across the board.

I further disagree with a 15% 5 year deal. The government has offered the teachers the same increase (5% 5 year if I recall correctly) that has been offered (and accepted) by the other public sector employees to date (well see what the nurses union does soon enough). Sorry, but given that the economy is flat, that there is a surplus of applicants and that there is little appetite for a tax increase, I think that BCTF position (with respect to pay) is unrealistic and absurd.

If the BCTF says at any point: Fine, we'll take the same wage deal as other public sector workers, but class size/composition is now our only issue, I think the discussion would be much different

so in light of the fact that this is what they have done in the past - made concessions on wages in order to get classroom improvements - do you think they should still do that? or should they only focus on getting classroom conditions back to the levels they were at 20 years ago?

and considering the job that teachers do, does it make sense to treat the field as a private sector job? does it make sense than some teachers work many years at lower levels of pay simply due to the way the pay scales are set up?

that's one of the issues; the public seems to think it's all rainbows and unicorns for teachers as the gov't has done a better pr campaign than the bctf.

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity ~ Seneca

May 25, 2014, 2:42 p.m.
Posts: 15019
Joined: April 5, 2007

The recent court rulings have proven the gov't hasn't and doesn't plan on bargaining in good faith.

People mention an over supply of teachers, maybe post secondary schools should stop acting as a business and produce qualified graduates based upon market conditions.

You'd have to really be into your job as a teacher to put in the hours with the kids, plus the time before and after class hours, prepping, marking, meetings, etc. for the pay they receive

Also, how many employers would hire a full-time teacher for some random gig for less than 2 months a year?

Oh yeah and the BCTF Pres needs a hair cut!

Why slag free swag?:rolleyes:

ummm, as your doctor i recommend against riding with a scaphoid fracture.

May 25, 2014, 3:46 p.m.
Posts: 14448
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

so in light of the fact that this is what they have done in the past - made concessions on wages in order to get classroom improvements - do you think they should still do that? or should they only focus on getting classroom conditions back to the levels they were at 20 years ago?

I think they should somehow break the two negotiations out. I don't have any ideas how that could feasibly occur, but as it stands now, the BCTF will always end up looking like they are using kids as hostages for wage increases.

That said, I agree that the liberals screwed them over in this regard, as held up by recent court rulings, so that's probably unfeasible.

and considering the job that teachers do, does it make sense to treat the field as a private sector job?

No. But I don't have a problem with annual performance reviews and sliding pay scales based on merit and/or competitive pay scale such as how it works in the private sector.

does it make sense than some teachers work many years at lower levels of pay simply due to the way the pay scales are set up?

It happens in the private sector, and it makes sense to me. Fresh grad is generally not as valuable as someone with 10+ years experience. Sure it's shitty pulling a 40K entry level job fresh out of uni when you'd like to be balling it, but that's just not how life works.

May 25, 2014, 3:50 p.m.
Posts: 14448
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

I

And you think that consumer demand is more important than giving kids a chance at a decent education? Give your head a shake.

I didn't put a value judgement on it. But keep up your outrage at inferred slights, you and Enduramil can hang out.

May 25, 2014, 4:39 p.m.
Posts: 15019
Joined: April 5, 2007

Sorry, but given that the economy is flat, that there is a surplus of applicants and that there is little appetite for a tax increase, I think that BCTF position (with respect to pay) is unrealistic and absurd.

Fresh grad is generally not as valuable as someone with 10+ years experience. Sure it's shitty pulling a 40K entry level job fresh out of uni when you'd like to be balling it, but that's just not how life works.

So which one is it?

Christy "Families First" Clark says the economy is booming, and I believe she was also the MOE when the teachers had contract language illegally stripped from their contract

Why slag free swag?:rolleyes:

ummm, as your doctor i recommend against riding with a scaphoid fracture.

May 25, 2014, 4:54 p.m.
Posts: 15599
Joined: May 29, 2004

Tacklebox supports both the teachers and administrators in his school district. Quality folks.

May 25, 2014, 5:14 p.m.
Posts: 14448
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

So which one is it?

It's both. I don't see the contradiction. I'm speaking from a private sector (corporate) background, and that's how it works. Imperfect system for sure, but there are a lot of variables.

May 25, 2014, 6:27 p.m.
Posts: 354
Joined: June 11, 2013

Yeah, but you know who pays for those bankers salaries? The paychecks guys in Fort Mac are getting? You

How do you reason? Their salaries come from the company they are working for, via their customers, not taxpayers.

May 25, 2014, 6:46 p.m.
Posts: 33723
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

How do you reason? Their salaries come from the company they are working for, via their customers, not taxpayers.

I think he's saying that the individual consumer (you) are paying their salary when you purchase product that helps fulfill their compensation.

Too bad taxes aren't as discriminatory as how you spend your money.

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

May 25, 2014, 7:05 p.m.
Posts: 14448
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

I think he's saying that the individual consumer (you) are paying their salary when you purchase product that helps fulfill their compensation.

Too bad taxes aren't as discriminatory as how you spend your money.

Careful guys, if you try and point that out, then you hate children.

May 25, 2014, 8:13 p.m.
Posts: 12863
Joined: Jan. 27, 2003

How would you perform performance reviews? Would you base it on grades? Parental feedback?

Maybe parents complain because little Johnny is a spoiled shithead that doesn't like it when his teacher tries to discipline him. Maybe some kids are getting poor grades because they've come to school with no breakfast because mom's on another crack binge and is sleeping it off.

There are too many things teacher's can't control. And as for administrators observing classes, I'm pretty sure that already happens.

I don't remember ever having what I would call a "bad" teacher growing up. Sure there were some I didn't like so much but they were still good at what they did.

I'm not a teacher but I pretend to be one at work and it is the most exhausting work I have ever done and if I was put into hopeless situations like a lot of teachers are (especially kindergarten teachers) I would be willing to do anything to try and improve conditions.

12 hours on a construction site's got nothin' on 6 hours with 15-30 drunken midgets.

www.natooke.com

May 25, 2014, 8:48 p.m.
Posts: 33723
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

In any profession/job there's going to be varying opinions on job performance. That doesn't exclude the need for checks and balances on employee performance.

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

May 25, 2014, 9 p.m.
Posts: 26382
Joined: Aug. 14, 2005

And how many problems in class rooms either for the teacher or even students have nothing to do with what goes on inside the classroom? Like teachers there are good teachers who want kids to do well and of course like any other job. Those who are not. But how much is this all effected by the people outside the classroom? I think in some situations while the teacher wants to do a great job they get screwed around with by the principal and management types who stymies their efforts.

www.thisiswhy.co.uk

www.teamnfi.blogspot.com/

May 25, 2014, 9 p.m.
Posts: 11932
Joined: June 4, 2008

As a parent who has two children in school, I'm all for performance reviews as long as you explicitly exclude children and parent input.

Furthermore, standardized tests are for simpletons. If you think they are a benchmark, you're either fooling yourself or you're ignorant.

If you have children, how often are you asking them, "Are you having any problems with your lessons today?" If it's never, fuck you. If it's every month, fuck you. If it's every day, they're going to turn out fine.

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