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pending teachers strike, BCTF and the gov't

Sept. 18, 2014, 10:22 a.m.
Posts: 11540
Joined: June 29, 2006

I think the take away from this conversation is that we should all demanding higher wages. Maybe if the average Joe could pays the bills, live in a decent house and take a nice vacation every year they wouldn't be so eager to keep the public sector wages down.

This is for the States, but I think we all get the picture…

Sept. 18, 2014, 10:34 a.m.
Posts: 11540
Joined: June 29, 2006

To start, they should demand some amount of time (5-10 years?) outside of academia before they can apply to pdp programs.

Oh ya. That is sure to get our best and brightest.

"Did we get some good applicants this year."

"No, those people all went into other fields, but the good news is they can all make a great cup of coffee."

Seriously, did you have to wait tables for 5 years before becoming an engineer? Of course not. Engineering, Law, Medicine all have far better ways of becoming a professional than teaching does. For teaching you take a bullshit program where you help out some random teacher for a while and boom, you are ready for a classroom. There is obviously a better way, but sending them off for "life experience" isn't it.

Sept. 18, 2014, 10:44 a.m.
Posts: 14447
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

Oh ya. That is sure to get our best and brightest.

"Did we get some good applicants this year."

"No, those people all went into other fields, but the good news is they can all make a great cup of coffee."

Maybe he meant they should backpack around Europe or go to Ibiza for 5-10 years?

Sept. 18, 2014, 11 a.m.
Posts: 2285
Joined: Feb. 5, 2005

Oh ya. That is sure to get our best and brightest.

"Did we get some good applicants this year."

"No, those people all went into other fields, but the good news is they can all make a great cup of coffee."

Seriously, did you have to wait tables for 5 years before becoming an engineer? Of course not. Engineering, Law, Medicine all have far better ways of becoming a professional than teaching does. For teaching you take a bullshit program where you help out some random teacher for a while and boom, you are ready for a classroom. There is obviously a better way, but sending them off for "life experience" isn't it.

So we agree that the current program is bullshit. Too many teachers have no clue what it is like to live and work in the private sector. My has been a teacher her whole life, and cannot understand that my dad, an electrician, doesn't get the whole summer off. She doesn't get that I get 2 weeks off a year, and just to get home I have to spend 20% of my vacation days for the year driving. In the private sector professionals don't get a raise guaranteed just because you've been there another year.

Before I can sign off on designs, resource estimates, etc, I have to work under a PE for 4 years.

That's the problem with cities, they're refuges for the weak, the fish that didn't evolve.

I don't want to google this - sounds like a thing that NSMB will be better at.

Sept. 18, 2014, 11:10 a.m.
Posts: 15229
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

it doesnt sound like a great deal for THE KIDS or the teachers

I suspect the teachers will settle cuz they are hurting for $$$

The class size thing got adressed without really costing the gov much money cuz in most school districts the amount of extra teachers per district will be a spit in the bucket

I imagine the gov lawyers advised against waiting for a judge to rule on the 2nd appeal?

I see those damn private school moms parking their volvo's in front of my house every day I'm turning into a curmudgeonly old fuck eh?

Sept. 18, 2014, 12:05 p.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Oct. 9, 2009

Oh ya. That is sure to get our best and brightest.

"Did we get some good applicants this year."

"No, those people all went into other fields, but the good news is they can all make a great cup of coffee."

Seriously, did you have to wait tables for 5 years before becoming an engineer? Of course not. Engineering, Law, Medicine all have far better ways of becoming a professional than teaching does. For teaching you take a bullshit program where you help out some random teacher for a while and boom, you are ready for a classroom. There is obviously a better way, but sending them off for "life experience" isn't it.

Yea I really think quality of life of entry level, and those hoping to achieve entry level, teachers without increasing wages. Unions aren't famous for giving too many shits about people who aren't yet full members.

Sept. 18, 2014, 12:30 p.m.
Posts: 7707
Joined: Sept. 11, 2003

I think the take away from this conversation is that we should all demanding higher wages. Maybe if the average Joe could pays the bills, live in a decent house and take a nice vacation every year they wouldn't be so eager to keep the public sector wages down.

This is for the States, but I think we all get the picture…

I read somewhere that the Federal Govt collects about 13% of its tax revenue from Corporate Taxes. Personal income tax is a over 50% of the take. The burden has been shifting from business to people, even in the age of record corporate profits. I don't want to say whether this is just or unjust, but when the people bear the burden of paying for this country's upkeep, we should have a say and an influence above and beyond that of businesses who don't make the sacrifices we as taxpayers do. If corporations want a bigger say, they can put up or shut up.

Sept. 18, 2014, 12:45 p.m.
Posts: 33723
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Revenue from personal income tax is not that much. More like about 20%. Corporate is about a third of that.

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

Sept. 18, 2014, 12:56 p.m.
Posts: 11540
Joined: June 29, 2006

So we agree that the current program is bullshit. Too many teachers have no clue what it is like to live and work in the private sector. My has been a teacher her whole life, and cannot understand that my dad, an electrician, doesn't get the whole summer off. She doesn't get that I get 2 weeks off a year, and just to get home I have to spend 20% of my vacation days for the year driving. In the private sector professionals don't get a raise guaranteed just because you've been there another year.

Before I can sign off on designs, resource estimates, etc, I have to work under a PE for 4 years.

We do agree on that. The programs are a joke. Where I disagree is that the private sector is some kind of hard knocks proving ground that is required for anything. My wife is a teacher (not currently teaching though) and I can say with certainty that her teaching career was for more work, far more stress than any of her private sector jobs that she had previously.

In the private sector most professionals do very well and if you look at their wages I bet they do better year over year than teachers and there is no upper limit for most of them. Why are you doing it? 2 weeks off a year and spend 20% of that travelling sound terrible. It's not for the coffee. If you knew you would cap out at 80 grand a year would you even consider it even with summers off? 80 grand is not much in this day and age, especially around here.

Sept. 18, 2014, 1:05 p.m.
Posts: 11540
Joined: June 29, 2006

Revenue from personal income tax is not that much. More like about 20%. Corporate is about a third of that.

NBR rule #22 - Fact check before taking on Duncan.

Where the money comes from

During 2010–11, the federal government recorded $237.1 billion in revenues.

These revenues came from:

Personal income tax – $113.5 billion, or almost 48 cents of every dollar raised in revenues.

Corporate income tax – about $30.0 billion, close to 13 cents of every dollar.

Goods and Services Tax – $28.4 billion, or 12 cents of every dollar.

A number of other taxes—such as non-resident withholding taxes, customs import duties, energy taxes and excise taxes and duties on alcohol and tobacco—made up $19.7 billion, or over 8 cents of every dollar raised in revenues.

As well, Employment Insurance premiums contributed $17.5 billion to federal revenues[1], or close to 7 cents of every dollar in revenues.

And other revenues—such as earnings by Crown corporations and revenues from the sale of goods and services—provided the remaining $28.1 billion, or 12 cents of every tax dollar.

Considering we the people are likely also carrying most of the cost of the GST and EI it looks like 50% is far too low.

Sept. 18, 2014, 1:23 p.m.
Posts: 7707
Joined: Sept. 11, 2003

Revenue from personal income tax is not that much. More like about 20%. Corporate is about a third of that.

More like a quarter …

Here are some stats (2009 latest)

http://www.statcan.gc.ca/tables-tableaux/sum-som/l01/cst01/govt01a-eng.htm

Total revenues $585,799 (million)
Personal Income Tax: $189,222
Social insurance taxes: $35,404
GST: $53,625
Corporate Income Tax: $50,277

I'll bet the proportion for succeeding years is even more skewed towards citizens and away from business (or so economists have been warning us).

Income tax is over 30% but add on social insurance, health premiums and taxes that are business deductions and/or are passed directly onto consumers like GST, gasoline, import duties, liquor, and you are easily over 50% for personal taxes.

I do understand that businesses do contribute in other ways, but not when people start becoming a profit center and nothing else.

Sept. 18, 2014, 1:38 p.m.
Posts: 2285
Joined: Feb. 5, 2005

NBR rule #22 - Fact check before taking on Duncan.

Considering we the people are likely also carrying most of the cost of the GST and EI it looks like 50% is far too low.

I just want to point out that those $0.48/dollar come from wages paid out by corporations.

That's the problem with cities, they're refuges for the weak, the fish that didn't evolve.

I don't want to google this - sounds like a thing that NSMB will be better at.

Sept. 18, 2014, 1:40 p.m.
Posts: 2285
Joined: Feb. 5, 2005

I think the take away from this conversation is that we should all demanding higher wages. Maybe if the average Joe could pays the bills, live in a decent house and take a nice vacation every year they wouldn't be so eager to keep the public sector wages down.

This is for the States, but I think we all get the picture…

Is the picture that people make more when the economy is going better (and I mean the real economy, not the fake one that is causing the last few years of that graph to stop making sense)?

The dollars for those wages have to come from somewhere. You can't just wave a magic wand and have money appear out of thin air. (again, notwithstanding the current policy of central banks)

That's the problem with cities, they're refuges for the weak, the fish that didn't evolve.

I don't want to google this - sounds like a thing that NSMB will be better at.

Sept. 18, 2014, 1:42 p.m.
Posts: 137
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

so because corporations are forced to pay the peons wages for working for them, they shouldn't have to pay taxes??

Sept. 18, 2014, 1:43 p.m.
Posts: 7707
Joined: Sept. 11, 2003

In the private sector most professionals do very well and if you look at their wages I bet they do better year over year than teachers and there is no upper limit for most of them. Why are you doing it? 2 weeks off a year and spend 20% of that travelling sound terrible. It's not for the coffee. If you knew you would cap out at 80 grand a year would you even consider it even with summers off? 80 grand is not much in this day and age, especially around here.

You forgot working 24X7 with email, videconferencing, texting etc. I read somewhere that inflation-adjusted income in the US is up 5% since 1972 (maybe not so bad all things considered - technology etc), BUT people at the bottom are taking the biggest hit. Someone making minimum wage today in the US makes about 66%, inflation adjusted, of what their grandparents did in 1968.

OK, so you say people on minimum wage can go f*ck themselves and should all get real jobs. That's all fine and dandy if you are comfortable with paying the hidden costs (the cost of lost opportunities/human potential and the cost of "civilization") of a permanent underclass while being ruled by the Law of the Jungle.

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