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pending teachers strike, BCTF and the gov't

Sept. 18, 2014, 1:13 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Sept. 20, 2006

teachers get a raise every year. (w/ less than 10yrs exp) What non-union jobs can guarantee that?

does this not address size and composition?

Education Fund
An Education Fund will be established and will be used exclusively to hire additional bargaining unit members to address class size, class composition, and the provision of specialist teachers.
The amounts in the fund are as follows:
2014–15—$75 million
2015–16—$80 million
2016–17—$80 million
2017–18—$80 million
2018–19—$85 million

If I see one more poster equating capital an operational expenses as equivalent I'm going to lose my mind.

Not in any meaningful way.

http://www.staffroomconfidential.com/2014/09/will-education-fund-improve-classroom.html

Just the link I was going to post. That money will buy nothing meaningful.

However, in an average size District like Victoria (20,000 students, 1,000 teachers), this will translate into about 5-10 more teachers. That is one for every five schools.

Also

I have no trust that the small additional dollars in the Education Fund will translate into more teachers. It is fundamentally the same as the LIF, and during the years of the LIF, teacher numbers have decreased. This is what our own union has documented.

Sept. 18, 2014, 1:37 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Sept. 20, 2006

Can we agree that a raise is an increase in a salary? Below is the 2010 Vancouver school district salary grid. The only requirement to move steps is ~1900hrs of work, therefore every "year" teachers at a step less than 10, get a raise, which in most cases is ~4%. Category shifts come from specialization and additional education.. They can move to Cat6 for completing a Master's degree for example, no other requirement.

Now I agree that the low end of the scale could maybe use a bit of a bump, but at the top end, making $80k+ and a pension that will pay out [HTML_REMOVED]50k/year (today's $ at current grid levels, presumably this will increase at some point in the future) at 60? (degree+2yrs+35yr service) This doesn't seem as horrid as people make it out to be…

School District No. 39 Vancouver
Teachers' Salary Grid
July 1, 2010
Prov Cat 5+ TQS 6
Step Cat 4 Cat 5 Cat 6/PA Cat 6/M
0 $ 43,790 $ 48,083 $ 52,019 $ 52,823
1 $ 45,981 $ 50,494 $ 54,663 $ 55,467
2 $ 48,172 $ 52,904 $ 57,307 $ 58,111
3 $ 50,363 $ 55,315 $ 59,950 $ 60,754
4 $ 52,554 $ 57,725 $ 62,594 $ 63,398
5 $ 54,745 $ 60,135 $ 65,237 $ 66,041
6 $ 56,935 $ 62,546 $ 67,881 $ 68,685
7 $ 59,126 $ 64,956 $ 70,525 $ 71,328
8 $ 61,317 $ 67,367 $ 73,168 $ 73,972
9 $ 65,414 $ 69,777 $ 75,812 $ 76,616
10 $ 74, 5 353 $ 80, 417 $ 81,

And finally

After five years of university training, BC teachers begin with a wage in the mid $40's, if they are full time. Many teachers only get part time work for the first 3-5 years of their career. It takes ten years of full time work to reach the maximum salary, which is about $75,000 for most teachers. BC teachers rank near the bottom in Canada compared to teachers in other provinces. A teacher at the top of the salary scale in BC earns on average $20,000 less than a comparably experienced teacher in Alberta and $15,000 less than one in Ontario. Yet BC has the highest cost of living and the highest housing prices in the country.

The key point here is part-time. Try as they might, many very good teachers cannot get full time work. My girlfriend was slated for a 0.5 school year. With her 2 years cumulative of experience, over 3 years of teaching, and being a cat 5, she gets half of the $52,904 salary. So she only makes $26,453. That's a nice paycheck when she needs to pay off a 4 year BSc and a $20,000, 1 year education program. Also if she's really unlucky, her 2 blocks are scheduled first thing in the AM and last thing in the PM, not leaving her with much choice on working somewhere else part time. There are opportunities to get called in during the spare time, but this is inconsistent at best.

Don't forget that a nice chunk of money gets taken from her pay every time for union dues, and the benefits teachers enjoy are not free either. Those deductions are staggering.

Sept. 18, 2014, 1:39 a.m.
Posts: 0
Joined: Sept. 20, 2006

For anyone that needs a little more insight, I recommend going through the site H.Chinaski referenced: http://www.staffroomconfidential.com/

Sept. 18, 2014, 7:26 a.m.
Posts: 2285
Joined: Feb. 5, 2005

And finally

The key point here is part-time. Try as they might, many very good teachers cannot get full time work. My girlfriend was slated for a 0.5 school year. With her 2 years cumulative of experience, over 3 years of teaching, and being a cat 5, she gets half of the $52,904 salary. So she only makes $26,453. That's a nice paycheck when she needs to pay off a 4 year BSc and a $20,000, 1 year education program. Also if she's really unlucky, her 2 blocks are scheduled first thing in the AM and last thing in the PM, not leaving her with much choice on working somewhere else part time. There are opportunities to get called in during the spare time, but this is inconsistent at best.

Don't forget that a nice chunk of money gets taken from her pay every time for union dues, and the benefits teachers enjoy are not free either. Those deductions are staggering.

I'm sure I will be ridiculed for saying this, but those are the laws of supply and demand. Lots of supply of new teachers, so pay is low. "Good" is a relative word. She is young, inexperienced, and although I'm sure she has the potential to be a great teacher, I'm also sure she is not there yet. I am no different. I make a fraction of what my boss makes, because he has been an engineer for 30+ years and I have been one for 2.5 years. Compared to him, I may have the potential to be good, but I don't even come close to being equal in ability.

That's the problem with cities, they're refuges for the weak, the fish that didn't evolve.

I don't want to google this - sounds like a thing that NSMB will be better at.

Sept. 18, 2014, 8:59 a.m.
Posts: 497
Joined: Nov. 11, 2004

Yes. It's strange that teachers have never taken control of the the supply side. Every teacher in training has to do time teaching in a real classroom; if the BCTF regulated this they could create a demand for teachers. It would be a way better tool than striking.

welcome to the bottom of my post.

Sept. 18, 2014, 9:02 a.m.
Posts: 14445
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

Yes. It's strange that teachers have never taken control of the the supply side. Every teacher in training has to do time teaching in a real classroom; if the BCTF regulated this they could create a demand for teachers. It would be a way better tool than striking.

Or the union could address the issue of retired teachers taking TOC work.

Sept. 18, 2014, 9:12 a.m.
Posts: 137
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Or the union could address the issue of retired teachers taking TOC work.

any evidence that this is actually an issue, or just another urban legend? My first year TOC'ing partner worked nearly full time for the last few months of last year….in the Sea to Sky at least, the good TOC's are recognized and get lots of requests and bookings well ahead of time.

Sept. 18, 2014, 9:24 a.m.
Posts: 486
Joined: April 11, 2011

I'm sure I will be ridiculed for saying this, but those are the laws of supply and demand. Lots of supply of new teachers, so pay is low. "Good" is a relative word. She is young, inexperienced, and although I'm sure she has the potential to be a great teacher, I'm also sure she is not there yet. I am no different. I make a fraction of what my boss makes, because he has been an engineer for 30+ years and I have been one for 2.5 years. Compared to him, I may have the potential to be good, but I don't even come close to being equal in ability.

How do these “laws of supply and demand” shake out for firefighters and police? Even with far lower job qualifications, do they have a hard time getting cost of living increases?

Sept. 18, 2014, 9:38 a.m.
Posts: 2285
Joined: Feb. 5, 2005

How does these “laws of supply and demand” shake out for firefighters and police? Even with far lower job qualifications, do they have a hard time getting cost of living increases?

I do not know of anyone I went to high school with who is or wants to be a firefighter / cop. I know of dozens who went through Douggy Daycare's jumping jacks 101 program and want to teach.

That's the problem with cities, they're refuges for the weak, the fish that didn't evolve.

I don't want to google this - sounds like a thing that NSMB will be better at.

Sept. 18, 2014, 9:44 a.m.
Posts: 14445
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

any evidence that this is actually an issue, or just another urban legend? My first year TOC'ing partner worked nearly full time for the last few months of last year….in the Sea to Sky at least, the good TOC's are recognized and get lots of requests and bookings well ahead of time.

The TOCs calling into CKNW to complain about it seem to think it's an issue. But yeah, it's anecdotal.

Sept. 18, 2014, 9:50 a.m.
Posts: 486
Joined: April 11, 2011

I do not know of anyone I went to high school with who is or wants to be a firefighter / cop. I know of dozens who went through Douggy Daycare's jumping jacks 101 program and want to teach.

Your lack of respect suggests that your friend circle may not have been ideal candidates for teaching. Regardless, there are far fewer firefighting jobs to be had, so your "personal experience" is not surprising. Less jobs to be had, fewer qualifications, and higher pay. You tell me which occupation has the tighter labour market.

Sept. 18, 2014, 9:58 a.m.
Posts: 14445
Joined: Feb. 19, 2003

Your lack of respect suggests that your friend circle may not have been ideal candidates for teaching. Regardless, there are far fewer firefighting jobs to be had, so your "personal experience" is not surprising. Less jobs to be had, fewer qualifications, and higher pay. You tell me which occupation has the tighter labour market.

Higher pay? Links please.

Quick google:
http://www.livingin-canada.com/salaries-for-firefighters-canada.html
http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Fire_Fighter/Salary

Sept. 18, 2014, 9:59 a.m.
Posts: 11540
Joined: June 29, 2006

I'm sure I will be ridiculed for saying this, but those are the laws of supply and demand. Lots of supply of new teachers, so pay is low. "Good" is a relative word. She is young, inexperienced, and although I'm sure she has the potential to be a great teacher, I'm also sure she is not there yet. I am no different. I make a fraction of what my boss makes, because he has been an engineer for 30+ years and I have been one for 2.5 years. Compared to him, I may have the potential to be good, but I don't even come close to being equal in ability.

Of course you will be ridiculed. The low demand is artificial because the parents are demanding things like smaller class size and increased funding for special needs which would increase the demand for teachers but the government prefers to spend our money elsewhere. The MLA's are all paid well and I am pretty sure we could fill their seats in a day if they all died in a plane crash.

But to be fair I do believe the PDP programs for becoming a teacher are way too easy to get through. Teachers could easily increase their value by making it tough to becoming and staying certified. A real system of "professional development" that is graded and mandatory would also have the added benefit of pushing the oldies out the door. During those Pro D's, the teachers are attending what typically amounts to a useless meeting with free coffee.

Sept. 18, 2014, 10:10 a.m.
Posts: 486
Joined: April 11, 2011

Higher pay? Links please.

Quick google:
http://www.livingin-canada.com/salaries-for-firefighters-canada.html
http://www.payscale.com/research/CA/Job=Fire_Fighter/Salary

Hard to find an updated wage. Take a look at the below. We're probably splitting hairs. Even if the wages are in the same range, what does that say about the labour market relative to teaching.


http://www.thenownewspaper.com/news/new-eight-year-deal-puts-delta-firefighters-at-top-of-pay-scale-in-province-1.1078822

Sept. 18, 2014, 10:19 a.m.
Posts: 2285
Joined: Feb. 5, 2005

But to be fair I do believe the PDP programs for becoming a teacher are way too easy to get through. Teachers could easily increase their value by making it tough to becoming and staying certified. A real system of "professional development" that is graded and mandatory would also have the added benefit of pushing the oldies out the door. During those Pro D's, the teachers are attending what typically amounts to a useless meeting with free coffee.

To start, they should demand some amount of time (5-10 years?) outside of academia before they can apply to pdp programs.

That's the problem with cities, they're refuges for the weak, the fish that didn't evolve.

I don't want to google this - sounds like a thing that NSMB will be better at.

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