parents + religion

Originally posted by Propagandhi
**big ol' cross buster on my jacket.

**

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I like the Nazi Buster myself. DK for life.

Originally posted by UFO
**way to go smart guy.

sounds like you've got it all figured out, i wish i had half the insight that you do :rolleyes: im sure if religion didnt exist, the world would have no problems and we'd all be gung ho. blaming the worlds problems on religion is ignorant **

IFO - I was merely stating my opinion. I don't proclaim to have it "all figured out", nor do I insist that my way is the one true righteous way (unlike many Christians and Muslims). I don't blame all the world's problems on Christianity, but I do think the Church has a very selective memory when it comes to their role in history. The Church is not infallible - with all the "good" they supposidly accomplish comes a ton of evil as well. Do you deny the reality of the Inquisition where tens of thousands of people were tortured and executed because they didn't follow the Vatican's particular brand of Christianity to the tee? Do you deny the fact that most of the indigenous cultures and religions of North and South America and Eastern and Northern Europe were destroyed in the name of the Christian god? Faith is fine with me - believe what you want to believe. But blind faith is, to use your favorite word, ignorant.

BTW - what did Santa bring you??

You can still be a good person without the church or a belief in god. I know that religion can do wonders for people who need it. They generally are good people (some of my friends are religious). But you can be as good or better or worse without using the church as a crutch to be a good person.

I am stating my valid points on why I don't believe in god or religion. I am saying that I believe in scientific evidence and theories as a way to explain our existance, not a book of stories. I am stating that we (as humans/animals) have invented deities as a way to find comfort in what we can not easily explain. We have exceptionally large brains that allow us to think abstractly and invent such things. Other animals probably do not (when was the last time you saw an ape worshipping an idol?). We are simply that: intelligent animals.

A person is saved from a horrible house fire: Is it a miracle? Or can it be a matter of chance? Why do good people get killed? Is it god's mysterious ways (or fate)? Or can it be …yes you guessed it - chance.

Religious traditions are being evolved out of the equation. It has been an important part of our existance for most of our time on this planet. Just as the world was once flat. But science has put up the best evidence as to why we came to be. The fact that we have seen a huge shift in people's thinking just in the last 100 years proves it. Darwin was considered a witch by many church leaders because of his theory of evolution. Now look at how many masses of educated people have accepted his theories. Education and understanding=what a theory!

To many, the theory that we may have evolved from micro-organisms to what we are now is scary. It sounds so much better to say that we were fashioned in the eyes of an almighty creator - that we are the chosen species. Imagine yourself living 2000 years ago, without any scientific knowledge, which would you want to believe? That we were formed from something as simple as bacteria, or that we are the important few?

It's a belief that is comforting to us - to know there's something for us to look forward to. Many people do not want to believe that we are only here for one lifetime. Do our spirits and emotions live on? Or are they just the electronic pulses in our brains firing away until we die?

These are some of my theories on the religious belief system. Don't get angry. I would like some theories on the side of religion for some healthy debate - not name calling, and no excuses that says "that's my opinion". You are not helping your cause by getting defensive or giving me nothing in return. My goal is to make people think about other options.

For UFO:

You are one of the people to whom I speak of. You are not putting up any solid rebutals to what we are saying. I've listed my points on the subject, yet you get offended and say that we are closed-minded. In fact, you are wrong. I am open to the belief in religion if it seems to help you. I want to know why you need it and what it does for you. Nobody will argue against the points I am making. My responses are this: "That is your opinion". Well of course it is!

I am also a believer in science as a way to explain things. Who's open-minded here? Maybe that's the problem with many religious folk, they are not open to other ideas. Whereas I for one accept people's belief in a god if they so choose.

Let's have something smart to add on your behalf.

I won't bash anyone that believes in another religion, or has different beliefs than me. there are other religions, and people believe in what they feel worked best and truly feels right, and i accept that. i have wanted to give up on religion as a whole before, but i knew that it was right for me when i was about to give up on everything. when i had given up all hope, it gave me strength to live for tommorow, and just be really positive towards everything that comes in life. definitly i feel that it is the right thing for me, and it has just made life a lot better. :)

That's more like the answer I was looking for. Thanks.

hey gimped, my post about close mindedness wasnt aimed to you, but to the people out there who are not willing to understand the point of view of people who are religious, and then go about to diss out religion in general and everyone/thing associated with it. i know your standpoint already and i believe that we've had this discussion at least on a couple other occassions. i am aware that you believe in science, and so do i. but only to a certain extent. there are certain things that science cannot and will not be able to explain, and there are also certain things within science that contradicts itself, similar to how some folk perceive Christianity and the Bible. if you've got the answer to life whether it be religious, anti-religious, whatever, believe me, my ears are open. i do not go to church because i want to become a good person or want to be known as one. i go because i have faith in my God and that is just one of the ways that i choose to worship

to grimnir: sorry about my firey reply to your post. the thing that ticked me off was you saying how you dont bash christianity, and then go off calling us bible-thumpers. it appears as though you already have a preformed bias, something that will not allow you to see things with an open mind. i dont really care about the historical aspects of religion, it is more of a present thing for me right now right here. i dont give a damn what happened hundreds or even thousands of years ago, there is not point in holding a grudge like that. i place my bets that if religion did not exist, man would find something else to start wars over. and finally, santa brought me the same thing this year as last year and the year before, nothing :)

How does science contradict itself? I'm not getting defensive - I just don't know.
What part of scientific theory do you not believe in? Evolution? Do you believe in creation? I'm just really intriigued by this debate.

What is it about believing in god comforts you? Does it give you guidance or a reason hope for something in an "afterlife"? Does it make you feel more important?

I think that if one practices religion, they should follow the docterine to a tee. You know, no committing of sins or crimes or breaking the law. How do you feel about that?

Why did you chose one god over another? (I assume it's christianity?).

Thanks.

I go to church, fairly regularly, out of choice… but I don't really go to church, I'm a sundayschool teacher bloke you see, I look after the crazy kids. they are soo cool, remind me kinda what it's like to have such a vivid imagination. So i guess I really go to church for te kids more than anything else.

This was a great Thread on the last board actually. I believe that i do actually have a personal relationship with God. My parents are both Christian but thats not why i am. I am a Christian by choice, its not the easiest life, often im mocked. But do u guys really think that i would l give up the eternal life (I believe i will recieve) just because a few people mock me?

Originally posted by UFO
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to grimnir: sorry about my firey reply to your post. the thing that ticked me off was you saying how you dont bash christianity, and then go off calling us bible-thumpers**

Being a Bible thumper and being Christian are two very different things: Bible thumpers are to Christianity as Al-Queda is to Islam. Bible thumpers are extremist nutcases and like every extremist nutcase, they deserve any derision that finds itself thier way. And odds are, even if it's presented in an obviosly humorous fasion, they will still take it as being dead serious (which to me is very funny). I also think it's funny how Christianity permeates so many aspects of modern secular life: if you talk to most people about Moses parting the Red Sea or Jesus turning a loaf of bread and a fish into a huge feast you're usually taken fairly seriously, whereas if you talk about a pantheon of gods such as Native American tribes, Norse and Tutonic cultures and many other Pagan civilizations believed in (and still do), you're usually laughed at. If I really wanted to be disrespectful to Christians I would do something like spell "Christianity" with a lower-case "c". You're right about mankind finding something else to destroy each other over without religion. As I've said before Christianity (and a lot of other religions) are simply a symptom of mankind and mankind has a habit of chosing the most self-destructive and in-humane path imaginable. People are going to believe whatever fits in with thier own personal philosophy. Most people won't get too much into it, others will use it as a crutch to support thier own weakness and to release themselve from responsibility and others will choose a path that is in direct opposition to such pathetic human traits as well as the cult of un-reason that so many organised religions become.

"Religion is the crutch of the weak."-Me

Big air Smite:, what does this mean:

"But do u guys really think that i would l give up the eternal life (I believe i will recieve) just because a few people mock me?"

What is an eternal life? Do you actually believe there will be something waiting for you after you die? How do you know this? Is there anything credible which documents (besides the bible) that this magical land exists? This afterlife you speak of is purely folklore and nothing else. What makes you crave this notion instead of accepting the fact that you are here for X-amount of years? Where is the proof that there is an afterlife? There is none. There are only stories and fables of such that have been passed down for millenia - that's not any form of certifiable evidence to there being an afterlife. Do you also believe in ghosts? Do you believe in the healing power of crystals? You should.

Religion is a comfort zone for people who want an excuse to improve their lives. It usually comes out of confusion and desparation and fear of the unknowing. If you can not accept that god is an invention of man's large brain, then you deserve to be mocked. The reason people get offended about what I am saying is because it flys in the face of everything you hold true. Just like the world was once flat. Say it's round-you get burned at the stake. Since science has become more and more the norm, religion has taken a back seat because there are NO theories to back it up whatsoever. Religion will thus be evolved out of our conciousness. So then how can you justify this belief?

"I also think it's funny how Christianity permeates so many aspects of modern secular life: if you talk to most people about Moses parting the Red Sea or Jesus turning a loaf of bread and a fish into a huge feast you're usually taken fairly seriously, whereas if you talk about a pantheon of gods such as Native American tribes, Norse and Tutonic cultures and many other Pagan civilizations believed in (and still do), you're usually laughed at."

- Yes exactly. Why is one form of religion or deity looked down upon amongst people who practice religion?

With religion: hell. Without: No hell. Hmmm, what makes sense there?
Ahh…you guys better pray for me!

Originally posted by tweek
**Proudly supporting Bad Religion.

I like the Nazi Buster myself. DK for life. **

Champion
I am wearing my BR shirt right now!!
And yeah i have the freedom to believe in whatever i want, i don't go to church, i don't even go on christmas eve.
No offence to anyone on the board but i just don't believe in that stuff and i can't stand all those poser "christians" that try to force their beliefs on others and act like total dicks themselves, and are probably the most un "religious" people a person can meet.
I am not trying to say that anyone on this board is one of these people, these are just the types of religious people i have had the misfortune of meeting.
Cheers
Daniel