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Mass shooting in Florida.

July 9, 2016, 3:52 p.m.
Posts: 3461
Joined: May 23, 2006

I was commenting on the graphic in the post before mine.

Truth is, america has a huge violence problem with the middle to lower class, no matter what colour the person. the populace is struggling with mental health and oppression…its not just a colour thing.Theyve fucked themselves into a corner with their policies and actions,now people are speaking out based on thier peer groups. its happening all over, not just to black folk, but everyone on the fringes of their society.

The truth is America's violence problem permeates all classes of American society.
The owning classes just do their violence by proxy (police/military).

Freedom of contract. We sell them guns that kill them; they sell us drugs that kill us.

July 9, 2016, 10:25 p.m.
Posts: 8604
Joined: Nov. 15, 2002

I agree, welcome to the Blue team

Absolutely not on your team in this case.

July 9, 2016, 10:27 p.m.
Posts: 8604
Joined: Nov. 15, 2002

Saw this elsewhere today. Too much logic in there for this discussion. And too much brilliance.

a law professor's response to their student's complaint about the professor wearingt a black lives matter t-shirt on campus.

http://imgur.com/a/YkDVQ

July 9, 2016, 11:34 p.m.
Posts: 33648
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

It definitely shows the difference between the student and the teacher.

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

July 10, 2016, 12:07 p.m.
Posts: 5
Joined: July 23, 2006

Found this post today online:

"I have come to realize something that is still hard for me to understand to this day. The following may be a shock to some coming from an African American, but the mere fact that it may be shocking to some is prima facie evidence of the sad state of affairs that we are in as Humans.

I used to be so torn inside growing up. Here I am, a young African-American born and raised in Brooklyn, NY wanting to be a cop. I watched and lived through the crime that took place in the hood. My own black people killing others over nothing. Crack heads and heroin addicts lined the lobby of my building as I shuffled around them to make my way to our 1 bedroom apartment with 6 of us living inside. I used to be woken up in the middle of the night by the sound of gun fire, only to look outside and see that it was 2 African Americans shooting at each other.

It never sat right with me. I wanted to help my community and stop watching the blood of African Americans spilled on the street at the hands of a fellow black man. I became a cop because black lives in my community, along with ALL lives, mattered to me, and wanted to help stop the bloodshed.

As time went by in my law enforcement career, I quickly began to realize something. I remember the countless times I stood 2 inches from a young black man, around my age, laying on his back, gasping for air as blood filled his lungs. I remember them bleeding profusely with the unforgettable smell of deoxygenated dark red blood in the air, as it leaked from the bullet holes in his body on to the hot sidewalk on a summer day. I remember the countless family members who attacked me, spit on me, cursed me out, as I put up crime scene tape to cordon off the crime scene, yelling and screaming out of pain and anger at the sight of their loved ones taking their last breath. I never took it personally, I knew they were hurting. I remember the countless times I had to order new uniforms, because the ones I had on, were bloody from the blood of another black victim of black on black crime. I remember the countless times I got back in my patrol car, distraught after having watched another black male die in front me, having to start my preliminary report something like this:

Suspect- Black/ Male, Victim-Black /Male.

I remember the countless times I canvassed the area afterwards, and asked everyone “did you see who did it”, and the popular response from the very same family members was always, “Fuck the Police, I aint no snitch, Im gonna take care of this myself. This happened every single time, every single homicide, black on black, and then my realization became clearer.

I woke up every morning, put my freshly pressed uniform on, shined my badge, functioned checked my weapon, kissed my wife and kid, and waited for my wife to say the same thing she always does before I leave, “Make sure you come back home to us”. I always replied, “I will”, but the truth was I was never sure if I would. I almost lost my life on this job, and every call, every stop, every moment that I had this uniform on, was another possibility for me to almost lose my life again. I was a target in the very community I swore to protect, the very community I wanted to help. As a matter of fact, they hated my very presence. They called me “Uncle Tom”, and “wanna be white boy”, and I couldn’t understand why. My own fellow black men and women attacking me, wishing for my death, wishing for the death of my family. I was so confused, so torn, I couldn’t understand why my own black people would turn against me, when every time they called I was there. Every time someone died .I was there. Every time they were going through one of the worst moments in their lives I was there. So why was I the enemy? I dove deep into that question Why was I the enemy? Then my realization became clearer.

I spoke to members of the community and listened to some of the complaints as to why they hated cops. I then did research on the facts. I also presented facts to these members of the community, and listened to their complaints in response. This is what I learned:

Complaint: Police always targeting us, they always messing with the black man.

Fact: A city where the majority of citizens are black (Baltimore for example) will ALWAYS have a higher rate of black people getting arrested, it will ALWAYS have a higher rate of blacks getting stopped, and will ALWAYS have a higher rate of blacks getting killed, and the reason why is because a city with those characteristics will ALWAYS have a higher rate of blacks committing crime. The statistics will follow the same trend for Asians if you go to China, for Hispanics if you go to Puerto Rico, for whites if you go to Russia, and the list goes on. It’s called Demographics

Complaint: More black people get arrested than white boys.

Fact: Black People commit a grossly disproportionate amount of crime. Data from the FBI shows that Nationwide, Blacks committed 5,173 homicides in 2014, whites committed 4,367. Chicago’s death toll is almost equal to that of both wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, combined. Chicago’s death toll from 2001–November, 26 2015 stands at 7,401. The combined total deaths during Operation Iraqi Freedom (2003-2015: 4,815) and Operation Enduring Freedom/Afghanistan (2001-2015: 3,506), total 8,321.

Complaint: Blacks are the only ones getting killed by police, or they are killed more.

Fact: As of July 2016, the breakdown of the number of US Citizens killed by Police this year is, 238 White people killed, 123 Black people killed, 79 Hispanics, 69 other/or unknown race.

Fact: Black people kill more other blacks than Police do, and there are only protest and outrage when a cop kills a black man. University of Toledo criminologist Dr. Richard R. Johnson examined the latest crime data from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports and Centers for Disease Control and found that an average of 4,472 black men were killed by other black men annually between Jan. 1, 2009, and Dec. 31, 2012. Professor Johnson’s research further concluded that 112 black men died from both justified and unjustified police-involved killings annually during this same period.

Complaint: Well we already doing a good job of killing ourselves, we don’t need the Police to do it. Besides they should know better.

The more I listened, the more I realized. The more I researched, the more I realized. I would ask questions, and would only get emotional responses [HTML_REMOVED] inferences based on no facts at all. The more killing I saw, the more tragedy, the more savagery, the more violence, the more loss of life of a black man at the hands of another black man .the more I realized.

I haven’t slept well in the past few nights. Heartbreak weighs me down, rage flows through my veins, and tears fills my eyes. I watched my fellow officers assassinated on live television, and the images of them laying on the ground are seared into my brain forever. I couldn’t help but wonder if it had been me, a black man, a black cop, on TV, assassinated, laying on the ground dead,..would my friends and family still think black lives mattered? Would my life have mattered? Would they make t-shirts in remembrance of me? Would they go on tv and protest violence? Would they even make a Facebook post, or share a post in reference to my death?

All of my realizations came to this conclusion. Black Lives do not matter to most black people. Only the lives that make the national news matter to them. Only the lives that are taken at the hands of cops or white people, matter. The other thousands of lives lost, the other black souls that I along with every cop, have seen taken at the hands of other blacks, do not matter. Their deaths are unnoticed, accepted as the “norm”, and swept underneath the rug by the very people who claim and post “black lives matter”. I realized that this country is full of ignorance, where an educated individual will watch the ratings-driven news media, and watch a couple YouTube video clips, and then come to the conclusion that they have all the knowledge they need to have in order to know what it feels like to have a bullet proof vest as part of your office equipment, “Stay Alive” as part of your daily to do list, and having insurance for your health insurance because of the high rate of death in your profession. They watch a couple videos and then they magically know in 2 minutes 35 seconds, how you are supposed to handle a violent encounter, which took you 6 months of Academy training, 2 – 3 months of field training, and countless years of blood, sweat, tears and broken bones experiencing violent encounters and fine tuning your execution of the Use of Force Continuum. I realized that there are even cops, COPS, duly sworn law enforcement officers, who are supposed to be decent investigators, who will publicly go on the media and call other white cops racist and KKK, based on a video clip that they watched thousands of miles away, which was filmed after the fact, based on a case where the details aren’t even known yet and the investigation hasn’t even begun. I realized that most in the African American community refuse to look at solving the bigger problem that I see and deal with every day, which is black on black crime taking hundreds of innocent black lives each year, and instead focus on the 9 questionable deaths of black men, where some were in the act of committing crimes. I realized that they value the life of a Sex Offender and Convicted Felon, [who was in the act of committing multiple felonies: felon in possession of a firearm-FELONY, brandishing and threatening a homeless man with a gun-Aggravated Assault in Florida: FELONY, who resisted officers who first tried to taze him, and WAS NOT RESTRAINED, who can be clearly seen in one of the videos raising his right shoulder, then shooting it down towards the right side of his body exactly where the firearm was located and recovered] more than the lives of the innocent cops who were assassinated in Dallas protecting the very people that hated them the most. I realized that they refuse to believe that most cops acknowledge that there are Bad cops who should have never been given a badge [HTML_REMOVED] gun, who are chicken shit and will shoot a cockroach if it crawls at them too fast, who never worked in the hood and may be intimidated. That most cops dread the thought of having to shoot someone, and never see the turmoil and mental anguish that a cop goes through after having to kill someone to save his own life. Instead they believe that we are all blood thirsty killers, because the media says so, even though the numbers prove otherwise. I realize that they truly feel as if the death of cops will help people realize the false narrative that Black Lives Matter, when all it will do is take their movement two steps backwards and label them domestic terrorist. I realized that some of these people, who say Black Lives Matter, are full of hate and racism. Hate for cops, because of the false narrative that more black people are targeted and killed. Racism against white people, for a tragedy that began 100’s of years ago, when most of the white people today weren’t even born yet. I realized that some in the African American community’s idea of “Justice” is the prosecution of ANY and EVERY cop or white man that kills or is believed to have killed a black man, no matter what the circumstances are. I realized the African American community refuses to look within to solve its major issues, and instead makes excuses and looks outside for solutions. I realized that a lot of people in the African American community lead with hate, instead of love. Division instead of Unity. Turmoil and rioting, instead of Peace. I realized that they have become the very entity that they claim they are fighting against.

I realized that the very reasons I became a cop, are the very reasons my own people hate me, and now in this toxic hateful racially charged political climate, I am now more likely to die,… and it is still hard for me to understand . to this day."

www.FVMBA.com

July 10, 2016, 7:14 p.m.
Posts: 13934
Joined: March 15, 2003

All lives matter - no?

1. Cops killed nearly twice as many whites as blacks in 2015. According to data compiled by The Washington Post, 50 percent of the victims of fatal police shootings were white, while 26 percent were black. The majority of these victims had a gun or "were armed or otherwise threatening the officer with potentially lethal force," according to MacDonald in a speech at Hillsdale College.

Some may argue that these statistics are evidence of racist treatment toward blacks, since whites consist of 62 percent of the population and blacks make up 13 percent of the population. But as MacDonald writes in The Wall Street Journal, 2009 statistics from the Bureau of Justice Statistics reveal that blacks were charged with 62 percent of robberies, 57 percent of murders and 45 percent of assaults in the 75 biggest counties in the country, despite only comprising roughly 15 percent of the population in these counties.

"Such a concentration of criminal violence in minority communities means that officers will be disproportionately confronting armed and often resisting suspects in those communities, raising officers’ own risk of using lethal force," writes MacDonald.

MacDonald also pointed out in her Hillsdale speech that blacks "commit 75 percent of all shootings, 70 percent of all robberies, and 66 percent of all violent crime" in New York City, even though they consist of 23 percent of the city's population.

"The black violent crime rate would actually predict that more than 26 percent of police victims would be black," MacDonald said. "Officer use of force will occur where the police interact most often with violent criminals, armed suspects, and those resisting arrest, and that is in black neighborhoods."

2. More whites and Hispanics die from police homicides than blacks. According to MacDonald, 12 percent of white and Hispanic homicide deaths were due to police officers, while only four percent of black homicide deaths were the result of police officers.

"If we’re going to have a 'Lives Matter' anti-police movement, it would be more appropriately named "White and Hispanic Lives Matter,'" said MacDonald in her Hillsdale speech.

3. The Post's data does show that unarmed black men are more likely to die by the gun of a cop than an unarmed white man…but this does not tell the whole story. In August 2015, the ratio was seven-to-one of unarmed black men dying from police gunshots compared to unarmed white men; the ratio was six-to-one by the end of 2015. But MacDonald points out in The Marshall Project that looking at the details of the actual incidents that occurred paints a different picture:

The “unarmed” label is literally accurate, but it frequently fails to convey highly-charged policing situations. In a number of cases, if the victim ended up being unarmed, it was certainly not for lack of trying. At least five black victims had reportedly tried to grab the officer’s gun, or had been beating the cop with his own equipment. Some were shot from an accidental discharge triggered by their own assault on the officer. And two individuals included in the Post’s “unarmed black victims” category were struck by stray bullets aimed at someone else in justified cop shootings. If the victims were not the intended targets, then racism could have played no role in their deaths.

In one of those unintended cases, an undercover cop from the New York Police Department was conducting a gun sting in Mount Vernon, just north of New York City. One of the gun traffickers jumped into the cop’s car, stuck a pistol to his head, grabbed $2,400 and fled. The officer gave chase and opened fire after the thief again pointed his gun at him. Two of the officer’s bullets accidentally hit a 61-year-old bystander, killing him. That older man happened to be black, but his race had nothing to do with his tragic death. In the other collateral damage case, Virginia Beach, Virginia, officers approached a car parked at a convenience store that had a homicide suspect in the passenger seat. The suspect opened fire, sending a bullet through an officer’s shirt. The cops returned fire, killing their assailant as well as a woman in the driver’s seat. That woman entered the Post’s database without qualification as an “unarmed black victim” of police fire.

MacDonald examines a number of other instances, including unarmed black men in San Diego, CA and Prince George's County, MD attempting to reach for a gun in a police officer's holster. In the San Diego case, the unarmed black man actually "jumped the officer" and assaulted him, and the cop shot the man since he was "fearing for his life." MacDonald also notes that there was an instance in 2015 where "three officers were killed with their own guns, which the suspects had wrestled from them."

4. Black and Hispanic police officers are more likely to fire a gun at blacks than white officers. This is according to a Department of Justice report in 2015 about the Philadelphia Police Department, and is further confirmed that by a study conducted University of Pennsylvania criminologist Greg Ridgeway in 2015 that determined black cops were 3.3 times more likely to fire a gun than other cops at a crime scene.

5. Blacks are more likely to kill cops than be killed by cops. This is according to FBI data, which also found that 40 percent of cop killers are black. According to MacDonald, the police officer is 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black than a cop killing an unarmed black person.

July 10, 2016, 7:43 p.m.
Posts: 1611
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

All lives matter - no?r is 18.5 times more likely to be killed by a black than a cop killing an unarmed black person.

those are all valid points zed, but what's not being asked/answered is how we as a society got to this place.

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity ~ Seneca

July 10, 2016, 8:45 p.m.
Posts: 13934
Joined: March 15, 2003

those are all valid points zed, but what's not being asked/answered is how we as a society got to this place.

Oh I know - like I've said for years - there is a massive social issue in the USA. Somehow that turns into everyone's and everything's fault other than the people. [HTML_REMOVED]--how did we get there is a great concern.

July 10, 2016, 8:54 p.m.
Posts: 1611
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Oh I know - like I've said for years - there is a massive social issue in the USA. Somehow that turns into everyone's and everything's fault other than the people. [HTML_REMOVED]--how did we get there is a great concern.

which people?

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity ~ Seneca

July 10, 2016, 9:03 p.m.
Posts: 3461
Joined: May 23, 2006

Wealthy people obviously. They're the ones with power to manipulate the body politic to their advantage.
It ain't about black and white, left or right. It's about have or have not. That's the what the fightings all about.
Malcolm X, MLK, RFK, they were all off'd because they made that connection and were in a position to preach it to the masses.

Freedom of contract. We sell them guns that kill them; they sell us drugs that kill us.

July 10, 2016, 11:45 p.m.
Posts: 8604
Joined: Nov. 15, 2002

:lol: when facts come into the discussion, libs just have to resort back to their feelings - cuz hey, the internet. Yes, I get it, NBR needs their feelings to believe that inanimate objects will get up and kill on their own - cuz people's personal stupidity has nothing to do with it. :lol: I less than three you, NBR.

Liberals are vastly less likely to push for initiatives and laws without facts and evidence to back them up. It is my biggest criticism of those on the right. Abstinence education anyone?

This is certainly a case when you are barking up the wrong tree. But look at the hotbeds of conservatism that are also fertile intellectual incubators, like Louisiana, Mississipi, Alabama, Florida and Kentucky. Not to mention 95% of Trump voters.

You are in good company.

July 11, 2016, 12:07 a.m.
Posts: 15546
Joined: May 29, 2004

Liberals are vastly less likely to push for initiatives and laws without facts and evidence to back them up. It is my biggest criticism of those on the right. Abstinence education anyone?

This is certainly a case when you are barking up the wrong tree. But look at the hotbeds of conservatism that are also fertile intellectual incubators, like Louisiana, Mississipi, Alabama, Florida and Kentucky. Not to mention 95% of Trump voters.

You are in good company.

the biases are strong in this one….

July 11, 2016, 6:16 a.m.
Posts: 13934
Joined: March 15, 2003

Liberals are vastly less likely to push for initiatives and laws without facts and evidence to back them up. It is my biggest criticism of those on the right. Abstinence education anyone?

This is certainly a case when you are barking up the wrong tree. But look at the hotbeds of conservatism that are also fertile intellectual incubators, like Louisiana, Mississipi, Alabama, Florida and Kentucky. Not to mention 95% of Trump voters.

You are in good company.

I don't see uneducated Trump supporters attacking educated Hillary supporters; regardless of state. I guess if you feel that criminals attacking law abiding citizens is the education and hate America needs - well that's your educated right to say such. Loud and proud. [HTML_REMOVED]-- see how profiling and prejudice works?

Even in the wake of the Dallas shootings, Obama is blaming guns, not the social issues and disparity between the poor and uneducated vs the wealthy. Tungsten actually has something there worth considering. I've listed in the past how experiments of education and social support has completely turned poor communities around and violence and drugs have dropped right off the chart - because simply making a law would have no impact. Drugs are illegal already, guns with criminals is illegal already, violence against others is illegal already - the list goes on.

I find it sad that Canada is now socially acting like the US, in that people now prejudice against someone based on who they think someone voted. If the NBR forum users' discrimination hasn't illustrated already how people love to hate based on opinion and not facts, well then Cam, go ahead and join the masses and sling shit as well.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t7PnrelFdY

Smart

July 11, 2016, 7:33 a.m.
Posts: 1611
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Even in the wake of the Dallas shootings, Obama is blaming guns, not the social issues and disparity between the poor and uneducated vs the wealthy.

Smart

So Obama is blaming guns eh, where did you see that? Or is this another case of your preferred interpretation of what was actually said?

"We also know that when people are armed with powerful weapons, unfortunately it makes attacks like these more deadly and more tragic. And in the days ahead we'll have to consider those realities as well."

I quoted that word for word from a press conference he gave which can be found here: http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/08/politics/obama-dallas-police-shootings/

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity ~ Seneca

July 11, 2016, 7:39 a.m.
Posts: 1611
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

I've listed in the past how experiments of education and social support has completely turned poor communities around and violence and drugs have dropped right off the chart - because simply making a law would have no impact.

Very true. What those examples show is that given equal opportunites and the support to overcome their environment, underprivileged communities can change. However, now we need to ask why those programs of education and social support aren't being put in place.

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity ~ Seneca

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