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How much do you know about the history of Indigenous people under Canadian rule?

Oct. 1, 2022, 4:13 a.m.
Posts: 13211
Joined: Nov. 24, 2002

Posted by: BC_Nuggets

Catholicism...what's the draw?  I don't get it.  I'd rather be a Scientologist if I wanted to completely give up on critical thinking.

I think a great motivation in monotheistic religion is the dichotomy of good vs bad, accepted behaviour as described and laid down by a prophet (forth teller, i.e. a person who saw what a certain behaviour or trend could end up, not a fortuneteller) and in the context of said religion a person either manages to adhere to the concepts or he/she/they "sin", i.e. they miss the target. 

Add to that some cultural ideas of how a society should be run, and you have a strong incentive for the uneducated masses wanting to achieve salvation. 

In the historical context Catholicism is an amalgamtion of various cultures, and religious and spiritual practises that came to be codified between 300 and 1000 AD, and has literally not much to do with what historians know of the times around when Jesus is supposed to have lived. All in all a creation to fortify power, control and a rigid hierarchy in all of Europe's societies.  I recommend Tom Holland's book "Millenium", as a starting point.

Oct. 2, 2022, 7:29 p.m.
Posts: 485
Joined: March 16, 2017

Posted by: Mic

I think a great motivation in monotheistic religion is the dichotomy of good vs bad, accepted behaviour as described and laid down by a prophet (forth teller, i.e. a person who saw what a certain behaviour or trend could end up, not a fortuneteller) and in the context of said religion a person either manages to adhere to the concepts or he/she/they "sin", i.e. they miss the target. 

Add to that some cultural ideas of how a society should be run, and you have a strong incentive for the uneducated masses wanting to achieve salvation. 

In the historical context Catholicism is an amalgamtion of various cultures, and religious and spiritual practises that came to be codified between 300 and 1000 AD, and has literally not much to do with what historians know of the times around when Jesus is supposed to have lived. All in all a creation to fortify power, control and a rigid hierarchy in all of Europe's societies.  I recommend Tom Holland's book "Millenium", as a starting point.

If you need some threats about going to a made up place supposedly called hell from  some book that is pretty much fiction used by whatever faction of Christianity that oppressed non believers to justify being "a good person" then you are in fact not a good person.  

As someone who is part Irish and Scottish ....all factions of Christianity can eat shit and die.

Oct. 10, 2022, 1:05 p.m.
Posts: 1799
Joined: Nov. 8, 2003

Posted by: BC_Nuggets

Catholicism...what's the draw? I don't get it. I'd rather be a Scientologist if I wanted to completely give up on critical thinking.

Simple they brainwash them when they're too young to differentiate between real and imaginary.

In rapid decline though, those brainwashed kids finally have the tools to shake it off.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/12/14/about-three-in-ten-u-s-adults-are-now-religiously-unaffiliated/

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On other topics, awesome map of indigenous lands we all live on:

https://native-land.ca/


 Last edited by: Hepcat on Oct. 10, 2022, 1:41 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Oct. 11, 2022, 3:07 p.m.
Posts: 485
Joined: March 16, 2017

Posted by: Hepcat

Posted by: BC_Nuggets

Catholicism...what's the draw? I don't get it. I'd rather be a Scientologist if I wanted to completely give up on critical thinking.

Simple they brainwash them when they're too young to differentiate between real and imaginary.

In rapid decline though, those brainwashed kids finally have the tools to shake it off.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/12/14/about-three-in-ten-u-s-adults-are-now-religiously-unaffiliated/

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Nov. 2, 2022, 10:58 a.m.
Posts: 2592
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

"The government seized the last of this community’s land 80 years ago and since has broken every promise and legal obligation to return it. In between, the community has lived in the harshest of conditions and suffered one of the most terrifying acts of state violence in the history of Canada. The whole story of Ipperwash Provincial Park is complicated and entangled in a much longer series of land seizures that can only barely be considered legal."

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2022/11/01/news/our-long-struggle-home-not-normal-not-what-canadian-citizen-endures

Nov. 16, 2022, 5:41 p.m.
Posts: 15629
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/delgamuukw-25-years-later-1.6646687?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar&fbclid=IwAR0vMrwJhb0lobN4r2doEWTx0YGMEbDulpEs65E7Zn_ILUVhNAQk7Fj91Bc

a good artical

Nov. 17, 2022, 9:25 a.m.
Posts: 11972
Joined: June 29, 2006

Posted by: XXX_er

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/delgamuukw-25-years-later-1.6646687?__vfz=medium%3Dsharebar&fbclid=IwAR0vMrwJhb0lobN4r2doEWTx0YGMEbDulpEs65E7Zn_ILUVhNAQk7Fj91Bc

a good artical

That was a good read.  It is amazing that this can have been kicked down the road for so long.  The crown controls 90% of the land in this country and can use most of it for whatever they want. The feds need to come up with an overall strategy for everyone.  IMO this will never work if we only consider indigenous rights and titles without also considering the rest of the people in the country and letting us know in concrete terms where the hell they are taking all of us in this century.  They should be using that land for settling indigenous claims while also expanding national parks and opening up more land for expansion since they want to bring in half a million immigrants per year.

Nov. 17, 2022, 1:03 p.m.
Posts: 15629
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

Read  "A Death feast in Dimlihamid " it was Terry Glavin's first book written about Delgamuukw when he was up here, Glavin is a writer/ journalist of some note , its a short book probably available at the library

Nov. 18, 2022, 9:30 a.m.
Posts: 15629
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

local happenings out on the Yintah

https://thenarwhal.ca/wetsuweten-coastal-gaslink-rcmp-overview/?fbclid=IwAR2Cv8mtCwqmt48AU1HaXAIBqiMMPN-mLLcWB7UD9k61pbHxcwUGbc7py18

the Tyee also has lots of good articals

Nov. 25, 2022, 6:07 a.m.
Posts: 13121
Joined: Jan. 27, 2003

https://globalnews.ca/news/7920118/indigenous-women-sterilization-senate-report/

Nov. 26, 2022, 10:04 a.m.
Posts: 485
Joined: March 16, 2017

Posted by: Hepcat

Posted by: BC_Nuggets

Catholicism...what's the draw? I don't get it. I'd rather be a Scientologist if I wanted to completely give up on critical thinking.

Simple they brainwash them when they're too young to differentiate between real and imaginary.

In rapid decline though, those brainwashed kids finally have the tools to shake it off.

https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2021/12/14/about-three-in-ten-u-s-adults-are-now-religiously-unaffiliated/

------

Yep. Actually there was a recent incident in Scotland of old pre Catholic/Christian religion Scottish Celtic religious practices and the uproar when a site was desecrated.

Dec. 12, 2022, 7:35 a.m.
Posts: 2592
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Quote from an article that came up over the naming of the new Matthew Begbie elementary school to wək̓ʷan̓əs tə syaqʷəm:

"In multiethnic, multilingual, multicultural Canada, English (and its alphabet) has become a bridge of universal communication, a language increasingly divorced from the culture of England, but a tremendously useful tool for giving a diverse people some means of understanding one another.

The phonetic translation of names is but one way this is accomplished; when names from a language with a different alphabet are made broadly readable through the bridge language, barriers are brought down and understanding is deepened. We are reminded that a person’s most culturally particular identity can be made universally accessible, that no person is so alien as to be beyond comprehension."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/12/08/indigenous-alphabets-canada-communication-language/?utm_campaign=wp_opinions&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Some other interesting info that's come up is around Matthew Begbie and his history with Indigenous peoples in this province is that his history is not as one sided as the media has shared with us. Begbie was more of a friend to Indigenous people than a villain, someone who learned to speak Indigenous languages so he could speak with them in the courtrooms.

https://kumtuks.ca/judge-begbie/


 Last edited by: syncro on Dec. 12, 2022, 7:43 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Dec. 12, 2022, 9:28 a.m.
Posts: 11972
Joined: June 29, 2006

Posted by: syncro

Quote from an article that came up over the naming of the new Matthew Begbie elementary school to wək̓ʷan̓əs tə syaqʷəm:

"In multiethnic, multilingual, multicultural Canada, English (and its alphabet) has become a bridge of universal communication, a language increasingly divorced from the culture of England, but a tremendously useful tool for giving a diverse people some means of understanding one another.

The phonetic translation of names is but one way this is accomplished; when names from a language with a different alphabet are made broadly readable through the bridge language, barriers are brought down and understanding is deepened. We are reminded that a person’s most culturally particular identity can be made universally accessible, that no person is so alien as to be beyond comprehension."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/12/08/indigenous-alphabets-canada-communication-language/?utm_campaign=wp_opinions&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Some other interesting info that's come up is around Matthew Begbie and his history with Indigenous peoples in this province is that his history is not as one sided as the media has shared with us. Begbie was more of a friend to Indigenous people than a villain, someone who learned to speak Indigenous languages so he could speak with them in the courtrooms.

https://kumtuks.ca/judge-begbie/

This is an argument that has interested me for a while and another aspect where I think we mistakenly took our cues from academia.  Without English phonetic translations, it makes learning the words and language a lot harder and that is the same for most indigenous people that want to learn their own language, not just me trying to read a sign on the side of the road.  I also think they should stop renaming non-indigenous communities just to have the names on the highway signs.  If a settler community was created 100 years ago near a geographic feature that has a traditional name, rename the feature, not the town.

Dec. 13, 2022, 8:18 a.m.
Posts: 2592
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: chupacabra

This is an argument that has interested me for a while and another aspect where I think we mistakenly took our cues from academia.  Without English phonetic translations, it makes learning the words and language a lot harder and that is the same for most indigenous people that want to learn their own language, not just me trying to read a sign on the side of the road.  I also think they should stop renaming non-indigenous communities just to have the names on the highway signs.  If a settler community was created 100 years ago near a geographic feature that has a traditional name, rename the feature, not the town.

Yeah, the renaming discussion has a lot of parts to it besides the obvious ones. In the case of Matthew Begbie school there is the missing positive history that is good for all parties and from my pov if that history was presented properly it shows his name as one that should be honoured and not disapraged. So that is an issue on it's own. The remaning issue in general is separate from the history of Begbie, but connected in this case because the school that bore his named is being renamed. 

The renaming issue, and the spelling/phonetics surrounding it, imho, should be considered from a view that is greater than just the name that's being replaced. The the history of Indigenous people on this land, their culture, how Europeans affected Indigenous people and how both peoples move forward all need to be considered. From the language pov, Indigenous people had an oral history, not a written one, so it's important to know where these name place spellings are coming from.  That would be from American linguist Bret Galloway who worked with speakers of the Halkomelem language. So in effect, one person determined how we've been seeing Indigenous peoples language in written form recently, which is difficult to read and pronounce. That's why I shared the WaPo article, as I think it does a decent job talking about how we might be able to do a better job of honouring Indigenous places names while into our current society.

That said, nothings really been easy for Indigenous people who have been forced to assimilate into European (British mostly in BC) ways of being. So is doing a relatively small thing like naming a school on the traditional territory of the Musqueam people in a manner that reflects them and their culture a really difficult thing to do? It comes down to what type of society people want to live in and the values they want to live by. If people want to live in a society that is dominated by one culture or way of being that continues to trample on the peoples and societies that existed here for centuries (millenia) before Europeans arrived then we can just maintain the status quo. If we want to live in a society that recognizes a diversity of cultures and identities, especially the ones that existed here pre-colonialism, then we need to be willing to recognize their cultures and values and make an effort to say they matter. I think naming a school, park or street to help that happen seems like a small thing, but we need to be considerate of how that happens.

Dec. 13, 2022, 2:30 p.m.
Posts: 11972
Joined: June 29, 2006

I agree.  I think politics gets in the way of these issues, and I think people are attached to place or school names for reasons they can't explain.  The Queen Charlotte Islands had their name changed to Haida Gwaii in 2009, but even though they are massive islands people in the south were not attached to the name and it was not a big deal.  I bet changing the name of Vancouver Island would not be so smooth.

I am not on board with changing the names of communities that are neither pre-existing communities nor geographic features, but this seems to be where all the action is at because they are on all the road signs.  I grew up in Pender Harbour and went to school in Madeira Park, which is part of the Pender Harbour community.  Technically Pender Harbour is not a town and it has a traditional name.  It was an important part of the shíshálh territory and some of them would go there for the winter (it is milder than Sechelt).  Instead of renaming Pender Harbour, they decided to try and rename Madeira Park to Salalus, which refers to a nearby feature called Canoe Pass.  It doesn't make any sense except that Madeira Park is what is written on the road signs.  The real problem is this is not a collaborative process. 

https://www.coastreporter.net/local-news/two-shishalh-nation-names-restored-on-sunshine-coast-4252241

Personally, I don't know why we are not starting with the mountains and waterways.  No changes to addresses are required and the names are legit.  Just do them all at once, and just like Haida Gwaii nobody will bother with the settler names again.  Easy peasy.

Burrard Inlet is səl̓ilw̓ət 
Mount Seymour Watershed is Ch'ich eliwxih
Mount Garibaldi is Nch'kay̓ (in-ch-KAI)

Seriously, how much cooler is Nch'kay compared to some rando Italian that never stepped foot in North America.

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