New posts

How much do you know about the history of Indigenous people under Canadian rule?

May 28, 2021, 1 p.m.
Posts: 1756
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Preliminary findings from a survey of the grounds at the former Kamloops Indian Residential School have uncovered the remains of 215 children buried at the site, the Tk'emlúps te Secwépemc First Nation said Thursday.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/tk-emlups-te-secw%C3%A9pemc-215-children-former-kamloops-indian-residential-school-1.6043778

May 28, 2021, 1:06 p.m.
Posts: 2067
Joined: April 25, 2003

I started to think about the individual stories that must be linked to each of those childrens dead bodies and got sick to my stomach.  I would probably want to kill if someone treated my children the way these kids were treated.

May 28, 2021, 1:11 p.m.
Posts: 1756
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

If anyone is interested in learning more about Indigenous people and their history in Canada I just found out about this online course you can do through the University of Alberta. It takes 21 hours and runs over 12 weeks. You can do it for free or if you want pay a $61 fee to support the program and receive a certificate of completion. More info here:

https://www.ualberta.ca/admissions-programs/online-courses/indigenous-canada/index.html


 Last edited by: syncro on May 28, 2021, 1:11 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
May 28, 2021, 4:24 p.m.
Posts: 12817
Joined: Jan. 27, 2003

Posted by: syncro

If anyone is interested in learning more about Indigenous people and their history in Canada I just found out about this online course you can do through the University of Alberta. It takes 21 hours and runs over 12 weeks. You can do it for free or if you want pay a $61 fee to support the program and receive a certificate of completion. More info here:

https://www.ualberta.ca/admissions-programs/online-courses/indigenous-canada/index.html

This looks like something worth doing.

May 29, 2021, 4:46 p.m.
Posts: 28
Joined: July 16, 2020

I've been working with First Nations all over BC for about 17 years now (6 as a consultant and 11 for federal gov) and while I am by no means an authority on things Indigenous, what I have learned is that every organisation I've worked for continues to have inherently racist attitudes and policies wrt FNs. Every year I tell myself I have to leave, but I keep at it. Not sure why other than sometimes I feel like working from the inside may be more effective than from the outside. But banging your head against a brick wall really wears at you.

At least at this point in my career I voice my perspectives freely and call bullshit when I see it (not always well received). But let me be clear...reconciliation is a politically motivated shell game with no teeth. The government does not want to give up any control or actually engage in developing frameworks for shared or collaborative decision-making. They think FNs will walk away if we through enough cash and pomp and circumstance their way. They won't, and they shouldn't. But I do not blame them for taking the little being offered.

I was involved in an initiative where basically all we wanted to do was codify already existing shared decision-making protocols and even that was halted because they didn't want put it on paper for everyone to see and for us to be bound by (i.e., wanted to be able to renege on the few collaborative processes we have with FNs). I've also seen executives put their 'spin' on interpreting a legal agreement with a FN group because they didn't want to collaborate anymore (i.e., cough cough Harper gov). The layers of bullshit are flabbergasting.


 Last edited by: meloroast on May 29, 2021, 4:47 p.m., edited 2 times in total.
May 29, 2021, 5:26 p.m.
Posts: 1756
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Thanks for sharing that. Sent you a pm.

May 30, 2021, 10:14 a.m.
Posts: 11911
Joined: June 4, 2008

Posted by: meloroast

I've been working with First Nations all over BC for about 17 years now (6 as a consultant and 11 for federal gov) and while I am by no means an authority on things Indigenous, what I have learned is that every organisation I've worked for continues to have inherently racist attitudes and policies wrt FNs. Every year I tell myself I have to leave, but I keep at it. Not sure why other than sometimes I feel like working from the inside may be more effective than from the outside. But banging your head against a brick wall really wears at you.

At least at this point in my career I voice my perspectives freely and call bullshit when I see it (not always well received). But let me be clear...reconciliation is a politically motivated shell game with no teeth. The government does not want to give up any control or actually engage in developing frameworks for shared or collaborative decision-making. They think FNs will walk away if we through enough cash and pomp and circumstance their way. They won't, and they shouldn't. But I do not blame them for taking the little being offered.

I was involved in an initiative where basically all we wanted to do was codify already existing shared decision-making protocols and even that was halted because they didn't want put it on paper for everyone to see and for us to be bound by (i.e., wanted to be able to renege on the few collaborative processes we have with FNs). I've also seen executives put their 'spin' on interpreting a legal agreement with a FN group because they didn't want to collaborate anymore (i.e., cough cough Harper gov). The layers of bullshit are flabbergasting.

I come from Manitoba where it's almost mandatory to be racist towards FN people, and it's no excuse to say it was born from ignorance.  I know it took me too long to free myself from those thoughts.

I can't stop thinking about this travesty and I won't lie, I now simply want to resort to violence to those who've downplayed residential schools, who are racist towards FN people, my liberal friends who apologize for the Liberal government saying their hands are tied because of the Conservatives, etc. etc.  Just fucking sick to my stomach.

May 31, 2021, 12:40 p.m.
Posts: 11507
Joined: June 29, 2006

Posted by: meloroast

I've been working with First Nations all over BC for about 17 years now (6 as a consultant and 11 for federal gov) and while I am by no means an authority on things Indigenous, what I have learned is that every organisation I've worked for continues to have inherently racist attitudes and policies wrt FNs. Every year I tell myself I have to leave, but I keep at it. Not sure why other than sometimes I feel like working from the inside may be more effective than from the outside. But banging your head against a brick wall really wears at you.

At least at this point in my career I voice my perspectives freely and call bullshit when I see it (not always well received). But let me be clear...reconciliation is a politically motivated shell game with no teeth. The government does not want to give up any control or actually engage in developing frameworks for shared or collaborative decision-making. They think FNs will walk away if we through enough cash and pomp and circumstance their way. They won't, and they shouldn't. But I do not blame them for taking the little being offered.

I was involved in an initiative where basically all we wanted to do was codify already existing shared decision-making protocols and even that was halted because they didn't want put it on paper for everyone to see and for us to be bound by (i.e., wanted to be able to renege on the few collaborative processes we have with FNs). I've also seen executives put their 'spin' on interpreting a legal agreement with a FN group because they didn't want to collaborate anymore (i.e., cough cough Harper gov). The layers of bullshit are flabbergasting.

This has been obvious for a long time.  The government only gives when they don't have to feel any pain.  I do question how we ever get to anything resembling a resolution though.  In your opinion what needs to happen for all the FNs in the province to feel that they have achieved what can be called a resolution.  I can't really conceive of what that would look like.  Do you think even with a cooperative government there is any chance of getting there?

June 1, 2021, 11:20 p.m.
Posts: 1756
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

I've been thinking about something to say or post for the past couple days after the news of the discovery of 215 children that were found buried at the Kamloops residential school. These children were stolen from their families and communities and taken to residential school where they died or in effect were murdered there. I think the best way to gain some knowledge on how residential schools impacted Indigenous communities all across Canada is to read Delmar Johnnie Seletze tell his story.

Delmar Johnnie Seletze is a renowned artist and a residential school survivor. He passed away in 2013. He told some of his story which is chapter 5 of the linked PDF. When you open it, if you type 72 into the page bar at the top left it will take you to the start of chapter 5. It's a hard read but it's also a worthwhile read.

https://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/obj/s4/f2/dsk2/ftp01/MQ52810.pdf

June 2, 2021, 1:31 a.m.
Posts: 13016
Joined: Nov. 24, 2002

Hey everyone, just wanted to tell you that I am amazed by and happy about the meaningful and civilized and open debates as of late.

June 24, 2021, 12:10 p.m.
Posts: 1756
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Seems like some of that history is starting to be exposed. 

I wonder what the public/government reactions would be if these children being discovered were the bodies of affluent white children that had gone missing? Or would it even been allowed to have gotten that far?

I hope these events can start to help people understand some of the distrust that exists between Indigenous people and European settler society and their governments.

June 24, 2021, 12:32 p.m.
Posts: 11507
Joined: June 29, 2006

Posted by: syncro

Seems like some of that history is starting to be exposed. 

I wonder what the public/government reactions would be if these children being discovered were the bodies of affluent white children that had gone missing? Or would it even been allowed to have gotten that far?

I hope these events can start to help people understand some of the distrust that exists between Indigenous people and European settler society and their governments.

They would have never let a bunch of rich white kids go unaccounted for in the first place, but if it was poor white kids that died 50 to 100+ years ago I doubt the government would do much but find someone to blame.  

I think these graves are a turning point for public understanding because it can't be ignored and most people really don't know what the history is with residential schools.

June 24, 2021, 2:02 p.m.
Posts: 325
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Man have to say.. Did no one give a shit when this was going on? Or was it another crimes against children show starring the catholic church?

June 24, 2021, 2:35 p.m.
Posts: 11507
Joined: June 29, 2006

Posted by: bux-bux

Man have to say.. Did no one give a shit when this was going on? Or was it another crimes against children show starring the catholic church?

It seems like the further back in time you go, the less anyone gave a shit, but the churches (not all of them were run by Catholics) did have the ultimate responsibility of making sure they were cared for and I would assume that the families of the kids were informed as to there well being.  Their attitude was so callous though I wouldn't doubt that they didn't even keep track of who the parents were.

June 25, 2021, 11:22 a.m.
Posts: 1756
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: chupacabra

They would have never let a bunch of rich white kids go unaccounted for in the first place, but if it was poor white kids that died 50 to 100+ years ago I doubt the government would do much but find someone to blame.

I think these graves are a turning point for public understanding because it can't be ignored and most people really don't know what the history is with residential schools.

I replied to this yesterday but it looks like it got lost in the ether of a poor reception on Seymour.

If it was poor white kids that were being stolen from their parents on the same level it was happening to Indigenous kids there would have been some level of noise/action on the problem instead of it just being ignored. Even though it was government backed, broader society would have spoken up. Because it was Indigenous kids though, white society didn't care. I hope that this is a turning point, but what really needs to happen is white/dominant society needs to change their attitudes and recognize that Indigenous people are important and should be a valued part of our society. We have much to learn from them, particularly when it comes to living in coexistence with the natural world. I think society will feel some level of sadness, some may even feel guilt/shame, but I honestly don't think this will be a switch flipping moment for people that currently don't care, want Indigenous people to "just get over it" or simply want the issue to go away. The change that should take place will happen over a few generations, even though it should happen overnight. It's easier though for people to be comfortable in their privilege than to challenge their identity.


 Last edited by: syncro on June 25, 2021, 11:27 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Reason: sp

Forum jump: