May not be related. But police in Halifax arrested a man after a search of the downtown core. He was carrying a rifle wrapped in cloth.
Gunman (men?) in Parliment hill
May not be related. But police in Halifax arrested a man after a search of the downtown core. He was carrying a rifle wrapped in cloth.
Maybe he couldn't afford a proper gun case?
Freedom of contract. We sell them guns that kill them; they sell us drugs that kill us.
Your comment is equally useless.
Why don't the good mountain bikers stop the bad ones from throwing garbage all over the forest. Oh yeah… you can talk to people until you're blue in the face but it doesn't mean you can control anyone's behavior just because you're supposedly a part of their "group". How do you know they are silent? How many prayer sessions at mosques have you been to?
Actually I have been to zero prayer sessions at mosques. But, and that is an interesting point. There have been quite a few public statements by moderate muslims over here in Europe in connection to the spread of the Wahabite/Salafi branch of Islam. And I have colleagues at work from around various greater muslim communities and all these people start to argue along the same lines - that it is time to actively do something against the radicals.
A spokesman of the local community over here said that such radical points of view have been tolerated for too long, along with the fact that some points of view in Islam in general may support the development of a radicalized belief, the role of women in traditional communities, the role of boys, the perspective and take on certain Western forms of entertainment, etc.
Such a perspective, that is the role of the communities themselves, has been around at universities, for example, for quite some time. The problem is that there are quite a few mosques who support such radical view points, and quite a few counties and city councils try to actively do something against these - but the whole issue has been around for much longer, and largely been ignored by both moderate believers and the city councils, and the state. Similar to this whole integration discussion going on, at least over here. But I assume it is similar in the Canadian Provinces as well.
The initial question still is: How does a state/county/city/community stop their citizens from becoming radicals and active supporters of terrorism?
One step could be that the communities themselves start to change their perspective, and, ultimatively, their strategy by going public, becoming more open, supporting local educational programs together with schools and the like, et cetera.
As any society, this problem can only be actively worked on by all those involved, not only the "officials", but by all.
I would not have thought that you have difficulties understanding my initial post. If I came around a little arrogant, accusing you of posting useless statements, apologies. Although I still do not like the part with the bombing.
"You don't learn from experience. You learn from reflecting on the experience."
- Kristen Ulmer
Freedom of contract. We sell them guns that kill them; they sell us drugs that kill us.
^^^^^^^
"While not exclusively the fault of the current prime minister, Conservative Stephen Harper, many will put the largest part of the blame on his efforts to transform Canada from a moderate, middle power with a history of virtually inventing UN peacekeeping, into a shrill, warmongering nation ever ready to rattle its (insignificant) sabre at any opportunity. It[HTML_REMOVED]#8217;s not who we feel we are, but it[HTML_REMOVED]#8217;s what have become in the world."
Freedom of contract. We sell them guns that kill them; they sell us drugs that kill us.
Maybe he couldn't afford a proper gun case?
He also apparently had a ear piece of some kind. And if you think about it….what kind of Cretin thinks it is a good idea to wander around a urban setting with a rifle?
Actually I just saw Tuesday's Globe front page and a event today makes me think today's events may have less to do with going overseas.
Malala Yousafzai was to meet with PM Harper to receive Honourary Canadian Citizenship. This guy could attack any day Parliament Hill as well as the War Memorial between now and Remembrance Day. When I think of Malala being there today it makes more sense as she is a enemy of ISIS.
The events with Malala and Harper we meant to happen in Toronto, not Ottawa.
From my armchair, it seems that the terrorist acts perpetrated are not organized or pre-planed. Based on current information, it sounds like the terrorist in St Jean was by all account a "lone wolf" that one day just decided to take action. Simply waiting in a parking lot to run someone over isn't an organized act. The Ottawa terrorist clearly had to get a shotgun [HTML_REMOVED] ammunition somewhere, but other than that, there seems to be no indication that additional planning was necessary, or that accomplices were involved.
In that regard, because there isn't a "plot" to thwart, accomplice phone-calls to intercept, terrorist cells to infiltrate, tools/bomb purchases to prevent, I don't see how traditional counter-terrorism methods can be effective against this new type of non-organized terrorism. It sounds like the extremists are brainwashed and then simply one day decide to act by whichever simple method they can come up with. The fact that the specific terrorist act is completely unpredictable is actually quite sobering.
The only way I see to put a dent into this is to prevent the radicalization to begin with.
Some details on Martin Rouleau's path: http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/10/21/he-seemed-like-a-typical-and-fairly-boring-convert-inside-martin-rouleaus-rapid-decent-to-extremism/
Interesting insight from the mother of a radicalized Canadian who ended up dying in Syria while fighting alongside ISIS. She's working on ways to prevent youths from getting radicalized:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mother-of-dead-canadian-jihadi-launches-de-radicalization-effort-1.2759170
particularly interesting is the part about establishing a Hayat chapter in Canada: "Hayat is an offshoot of a German organization called "Exit," which has had good success in deprogramming neo-Nazis as if plucking them from a cult. Hayat adopts similar methodology and applies it to dealing with militant Islamists."
Radio interview with her after the murder in St Jean sur Richelieu: http://www.cbc.ca/news/mom-of-extremist-teen-urges-government-to-take-action-1.2808703
Interesting article that looks into why some youth turn to extremism: http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/10/22/na1023-tb-radicalization/
:canada: :czech:
The events with Malala and Harper we meant to happen in Toronto, not Ottawa.
From my armchair, it seems that the terrorist acts perpetrated are not organized or pre-planed. Based on current information, it sounds like the terrorist in St Jean was by all account a "lone wolf" that one day just decided to take action. Simply waiting in a parking lot to run someone over isn't an organized act. The Ottawa terrorist clearly had to get a shotgun [HTML_REMOVED] ammunition somewhere, but other than that, there seems to be no indication that additional planning was necessary, or that accomplices were involved.
In that regard, because there isn't a "plot" to thwart, accomplice phone-calls to intercept, terrorist cells to infiltrate, tools/bomb purchases to prevent, I don't see how traditional counter-terrorism methods can be effective against this new type of non-organized terrorism. It sounds like the extremists are brainwashed and then simply one day decide to act by whichever simple method they can come up with. The fact that the specific terrorist act is completely unpredictable is actually quite sobering.
The only way I see to put a dent into this is to prevent the radicalization to begin with.Some details on Martin Rouleau's path: http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/10/21/he-seemed-like-a-typical-and-fairly-boring-convert-inside-martin-rouleaus-rapid-decent-to-extremism/
Interesting insight from the mother of a radicalized Canadian who ended up dying in Syria while fighting alongside ISIS. She's working on ways to prevent youths from getting radicalized:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/mother-of-dead-canadian-jihadi-launches-de-radicalization-effort-1.2759170
particularly interesting is the part about establishing a Hayat chapter in Canada: "Hayat is an offshoot of a German organization called "Exit," which has had good success in deprogramming neo-Nazis as if plucking them from a cult. Hayat adopts similar methodology and applies it to dealing with militant Islamists."
Radio interview with her after the murder in St Jean sur Richelieu: http://www.cbc.ca/news/mom-of-extremist-teen-urges-government-to-take-action-1.2808703Interesting article that looks into why some youth turn to extremism: http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/10/22/na1023-tb-radicalization/
Posted that last night and didn't know it was in Toronto. But still it effect that was positive for ISIS…the event was cancelled.
Read somewhere but can't recall as so much info on this. But apparently ISIS is suggesting less organized grand actions which as proven by the Toronto 18 and VIA Rail Plot easier to track and disrupt. Which makes sense as it also increases concern that there are more out there which unless you as delusional as a Maple Leaf's hockey fan…they are out there.
Found it.
And let us keep in mind yesterday all it took was one lone wolf to create terror in a downtown core a little smaller then Vancouver's. This on top of the one in Quebec.
Now speaking of the internet. It would be interesting to see who in Canada was on these individuals email correspondence. I wonder if the name Khadr is in there?
And article on the people who tried to keep Cpl Cirillo alive.
One step could be that the communities themselves start to change their perspective, and, ultimatively, their strategy by going public, becoming more open, supporting local educational programs together with schools and the like, et cetera.
As any society, this problem can only be actively worked on by all those involved, not only the "officials", but by all.
.
It does appears that many local muslim communities are open about the issue and have been asking for help against extremism:
Somali Congress of Western Canada: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/edmonton-somali-group-wants-harper-s-help-to-prevent-isis-recruitment-1.2776353
Calgary muslim community: http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/calgary-muslims-shocked-isis-recruits-lived-among-them-1.2751035
" Muslim leaders in Calgary want to keep the issue on the agenda. They are planning a four-day conference about radicalization, entitled "Own It," in September."
Burnaby mosque: "A chairperson at the mosque said he did not know Zehaf-Bibeau and that he was appalled by the day's events. He emphasized that they work very hard to ensure radicalization does not happen. He said the measures included working with Canadian intelligence officers and even having Canadian military recruiters visit the mosque. The chairperson said the mosque even forbids small group discussions about the Qur'an." (from http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/michael-zehaf-bibeau-slain-ottawa-shooter-had-criminal-record-in-quebec-b-c-1.2809562?utm_content=bufferfb00b[HTML_REMOVED]utm_medium=social[HTML_REMOVED]utm_source=twitter.com[HTML_REMOVED]utm_campaign=buffer)
What I find most disturbing about the above examples is the comments section where most people chime in to disparage and blame the entire community itself, going as far as to suggest that they are "faking" concern. Not that CBC comments section is typically a source of brilliance, but do people not understand that by vilifying and ostracizing an entire community based on a small proportion of "bad apples" helps the extremist recruiters? Its similar to cults, they prey on vulnerable people that are society's cast-offs.
:canada: :czech:
I still don't know, the more I read the more it seems like these were isolated cases of guys who had mental problems and looking for a 'cause' to latch onto to try and gain some kind of validation for themselves….let alone being a part of some vast conspiracy.
The question I have is, how are we failing as a society when apparent outcasts feel like the only way to get noticed is to kill people?
The question I have is, how are we failing as a society when apparent outcasts feel like the only way to get noticed is to kill people?
This is not a new problem. It has always been a problem. The new component to the problem is the internet makes it much easier for outcasts as you call them to connect with the wrong people. People who will manipulate people who are looking for what ever is missing in their lives for whatever reason.
Now let me make a point for you Flip….almost 25 years ago I was an outcast as you call it. Didn't fit in and had no clue what was next. Looking back made a lot of bad decisions trying to find my place in a world that I no longer knew. And thank fully I was into bikes at the time. And it took 5 years to through a job to connect to the right people which led me to where I am now….a little less of an outcast but not where I once was. And always saying things like Mentally ill or unstable does not help this either. Especially when we do not have a Scientific and Medical Diagnosis to confirm that.
So in the end it comes down to human interaction and how we treat those who like you deem are outcasts. Of course we will not catch and steer all of them down a different path. There will always be those who have the end goal and will do everything to achieve that goal like yesterday.
Not that CBC comments section is typically a source of brilliance, but do people not understand that by vilifying and ostracizing an entire community based on a small proportion of "bad apples" helps the extremist recruiters? Its similar to cults, they prey on vulnerable people that are society's cast-offs.
And it is harder to spot the cult's as the internet chat room will become their Cult Compound. No fixed address or grid reference for surveillance teams to monitor.
Video security video feed from centre block.
Once he exited the Minister's car running into centre block he had the RCMP in hot pursuit.
[QUOTE=FlipFantasia;2843283
The question I have is, how are we failing as a society when apparent outcasts feel like the only way to get noticed is to kill people?
this is nothing new, has happened all through time.
Zehaf was not mentally unstable according to VPD which held him in custody for 66 days on robbery charge. He was deemed by Dr's in vancouver via VPD to be mentally fit.
In 2011.
Quit being so emotionally reactive and let the facts present themselves. This was a terrible day for our country as well as for some friends and family members of two men. Heroes stepped up to try and help make a difference and some succeeded in saving many lives
No need to make it worse with useless drama. There are too many in this country with this emotionally reactive attitude that will only weaken us as a nation.
You are welcome to go Syria and see how much they like you. I will pay the plane fare.
Have fun:)
Had a friend spend a few months there just before the rebellions against Assad started. He was treated very well by the large percentage of good people there who are not extremist.
"May a commune of gay, Marxist Muslim illegal immigrants use your tax dollars to open a drive-thru abortion clinic in your church."
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