Electric Vehicle (EV) discussion thread

Lack of infrastructure pushed me into a Jeep Wrangler 4xe PHEV. 

About 40km electric range, haven’t purchased gas in weeks. Could still jump on the highway and drive to Mexico tomorrow without finding charge spots on the way. It would burn some gas, but still has all the hybrid things like regen braking and electric boost from a dead stop so it’s much better than a pure ICE vehicle even with a flat battery.

Being a hybrid it will occasionally run the gas engine up to temp in winter to make sure the oil doesn’t get too much condensation in it, and to make sure the fuel isn’t getting too old. Recharges in just about 2h from 0% on a level 2 charger.

The key with a PHEV is to be able to run your daily drives on nearly or completely electric. If you’re going much more than the electric range on a daily basis I’m not sure the math works out. 

Maybe the nicest thing is it has ridiculous torque if you floor it. I’ve tried to avoid that kind of shenanigans but 470ft-lb makes it feel pretty zippy on an on ramp or something. 

I’m hooked on electric and hopefully the next one won’t need any gas to patch up holes in the EV charging grid.

Saw recently that Sony & Honda have partnered to do EV things, Sony's concept a few years back was slick so that's cool. Solterra and BZ4X will sell out but damn is that some polarizing styling and meh tech. MX-30 is pretty much a worse i3, not sure why it exists at all. Ariya seems to be what everyone wants, good luck getting one of those ever.

Posted by: mrbrett

Lack of infrastructure pushed me into a Jeep Wrangler 4xe PHEV. 

About 40km electric range, haven’t purchased gas in weeks. Could still jump on the highway and drive to Mexico tomorrow without finding charge spots on the way. It would burn some gas, but still has all the hybrid things like regen braking and electric boost from a dead stop so it’s much better than a pure ICE vehicle even with a flat battery.

Being a hybrid it will occasionally run the gas engine up to temp in winter to make sure the oil doesn’t get too much condensation in it, and to make sure the fuel isn’t getting too old. Recharges in just about 2h from 0% on a level 2 charger.

The key with a PHEV is to be able to run your daily drives on nearly or completely electric. If you’re going much more than the electric range on a daily basis I’m not sure the math works out. 

Maybe the nicest thing is it has ridiculous torque if you floor it. I’ve tried to avoid that kind of shenanigans but 470ft-lb makes it feel pretty zippy on an on ramp or something. 

I’m hooked on electric and hopefully the next one won’t need any gas to patch up holes in the EV charging grid.

Exactly this. Your daily drives need to be all electric (or close to) for this to be worth it. The price difference between the 4xe and the regular Wrangler doesn't seem to be all that much (assuming the same trim level)? You need to be comparing a Sahara 4xe to a Sahara for example.

I assume some sort of EV rebate as well for the 4xe?

Non plug in hybrids make even more sense for most.

Yeah, comparing a Sahara to a Sahara 4xe makes the price actually almost the same. A gas Sahara has fewer options than a Sahara 4xe. Once they are specced the same it’s a maybe $1k difference, maybe less - depending on how you value some things (bigger, more sophisticated front axle and a selectable automatic 4wd mode on the hybrid model for example). 

I think most sensible provinces have a ~$2500 PHEV credit. I currently live in Alberta where you can be tried for treason if you purchase anything electric, so I am trying to keep this Jeep a secret from the guys with two first names that run this province.

Truth be told the sales guy was also useless and I was on my own to do research and know what I wanted and how it works. I tend to go pretty deep into research before making a large purchase anyway so that was ok but I’d never send someone in cold to buy a hybrid anything. But in a Dodge/Jeep dealership I wasn’t surprised to hear “hybrid, are you sure about that? Sounds complicated!”

Maybe that’s the most frustrating part about the state of BEV and PHEVs now. As the buyer you have to take a lot of responsibility because you have to know how much a level 2 charger will cost to have installed at home. And you have to know pretty accurately what winter might do to your range and function. And you have to know where the charging stations are. And you have to geek out on how one of these things works to have a charging strategy for long trips (I’ve done a road trip in a Tesla before, and the charging options are getting better but it’s not a slam dunk everywhere). Would be a lot easier if a typical end user didn’t need that level of interest to get the most out of the vehicle. 

Just get in and go, like a gas Corolla. Treat it like the appliance it probably is at that point.

Agree that the above is the best move right now and it seems doo-able as there are a bunch of vehicles that carry smallish battery packs capable of 40 to 70km on electric only (plenty for most persons daily commute) but still gas engines for the days when you need further. One thing I wish, slap a recharger for the battery onto the alternator and turn that engine into a generator too. I understand that it would decrease mileage slightly all the time - but by how much? Same amount as having your A/C turned off?

PHEV is the best of all worlds right now I think. Youre not a slave to charging when that becomes a problem but for most days you can be full electric.

My jeep can go in a mode where you can tell the gas engine to charge the PHEV battery. It’s slow and inefficient but possible. It’s like +2-3 L/100km on the highway from what I can tell. 

Maybe makes the most sense in the hypothetical near future where city centres require something like an HOV lane - multi occupant or electric to drive downtown. I could see that happening.

I've been away from the forum for a long time, it's good to see this thread still has traction.  

Just *semi* retired after 8 years of working with a fleet of EV's and have picked up some knowledge around the long term viability of using EVs for high mileage and heavier logistics and courier work.  It was a great learning experience.

https://electrek.co/2022/06/01/elon-musk-tesla-employees-come-back-office-or-quit/

Subject: To be super clear

Everyone at Tesla is required to spend a minimum of 40 hours in the office per week. Moreover, the office must be where your actual colleagues are located, not some remote pseudo office. If you don’t show up, we will assume you have resigned.

The more senior you are, the more visible must be your presence. That is why I lived in the factory so much – so that those on the line could see me working alongside them. If I had not done that, Tesla would long ago have gone bankrupt.

There are of course companies that don’t require this, but when was the last time they shipped a great new product? It’s been a while.

Tesla has and will create and actually manufacture the most exciting and meaningful products of any company on Earth. This will not happen by phoning it in.

Thanks,

Elon

The beatings will continue until moral improves!

(to be fair, Tesla office people are making big bank, so they can suck it up and trade their lives for coin).

I think many workplaces are struggling with this right now. I dont think there is an easy answer. Some workers are more comfortable and productive working at home, and the employer wants people on site working in the office that they are paying for. I dont think either of those requests are unfair. I know some businesses have implemented a '2 or 3 days a week' policy that works for some people, but seemingly not for others. Im not sure what the best compromise is.

Posted by: Ddean

One thing I wish, slap a recharger for the battery onto the alternator and turn that engine into a generator too. I understand that it would decrease mileage slightly all the time - but by how much? Same amount as having your A/C turned off?

That was how the Chevy Volt worked. The gas engine ran a generator to power the electric motor.  I wish that design concept had caught on more, it seems ideal for people that don't have easy access to charging at home.

The Volt has the ability to be a Series Hybrid or a Parallel Hybrid, the ICE can either run in generator mode to charge the battery while the EV motor propels the car or in parallel to help the EV motor. 

Nissan does a full Series Hybrid system called E-Power. The ICE has no connection to the EV motor, it is only connected to a generator to provide power to the battery. It has a pretty small battery so the ICE runs all the time. The ICE can run along at it's peak efficiency to keep the battery topped up along with regenerative breaking. The EV motor in this is the same as a Leaf. They've just started selling this system outside of Japan in a CUV so it will start to get more press.

Posted by: earleb

The Volt has the ability to be a Series Hybrid or a Parallel Hybrid, the ICE can either run in generator mode to charge the battery while the EV motor propels the car or in parallel to help the EV motor.

Nissan does a full Series Hybrid system called E-Power. The ICE has no connection to the EV motor, it is only connected to a generator to provide power to the battery. It has a pretty small battery so the ICE runs all the time. The ICE can run along at it's peak efficiency to keep the battery topped up along with regenerative breaking. The EV motor in this is the same as a Leaf. They've just started selling this system outside of Japan in a CUV so it will start to get more press.

i don’t get why anyone would buy such a vehicle in 2022. you‘ll clearly be the last owner as the resell value will drop hard in the coming years.

the more ev vehicles press on holding on to such a car will turn out in a financial game of musical chairs. at some point there will be no buyers left anymore.

Posted by: Sethimus

Posted by: earleb

The Volt has the ability to be a Series Hybrid or a Parallel Hybrid, the ICE can either run in generator mode to charge the battery while the EV motor propels the car or in parallel to help the EV motor.

Nissan does a full Series Hybrid system called E-Power. The ICE has no connection to the EV motor, it is only connected to a generator to provide power to the battery. It has a pretty small battery so the ICE runs all the time. The ICE can run along at it's peak efficiency to keep the battery topped up along with regenerative breaking. The EV motor in this is the same as a Leaf. They've just started selling this system outside of Japan in a CUV so it will start to get more press.

i don’t get why anyone would buy such a vehicle in 2022. you‘ll clearly be the last owner as the resell value will drop hard in the coming years.

the more ev vehicles press on holding on to such a car will turn out in a financial game of musical chairs. at some point there will be no buyers left anymore.

I had a chat with a guy with a shiny new Prius Prime recently. Does all of his everyday driving on the battery, plugs it into 110v over night. No range anxiety for longer trips and excellent fuel efficiency to boot. Not exactly ground breaking tech but it's getting better and cheaper.

That’s kind of where I’m finding my Wrangler 4xe experience to be. I get 50km on battery with the climate controls managed suitably.  Maybe 40km if I throw caution to the wind and run the heat/AC like a complete maniac. That’s enough range for daily drives for sure. 

Three months later and I’m buying gas only for road trips. So far so good.