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Electric Vehicle (EV) discussion thread

Dec. 14, 2021, 10:21 a.m.
Posts: 365
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: three-sheets

Posted by: switch

There are government and/or utility provider incentives.  Depending on your situation, the amount might cover a small fraction of the complete installation, or it might cover quite as bit of it.

Besides buying and installing the charger, there's the wiring to the charger and panel connection.  There's also the capability of the home; a lot of older homes have only 100A service, so a high current level 2 charger may not be possible without an expensive home electrical service upgrade from the utility company.

... and thats if the local grid can even handle users upgradi g to 200a service.

As ive said before, there needs to ba a standard set for a quickly swappable battery, you pull into your favorite battery station and the battery is swapped out whike the attendant washes your windshield . You pay for a fully charged battery, based based on the remaining charge left in the one your returning.

Too easy.

The max draw by a Tesla via AC charging is 48amps. 

Brings us back to the does everyone need 500km to 600km or range for their outlier use cases? If we only need to charge 50km overnight it can happen pretty easy on a much lower amp draw and the 100amp service is just fine. Someone "needs" the juice fast? Hit a DC-DC charger that is running much higher current and bypasses the 48amp limit in the build in AC-DC charger.

Dec. 14, 2021, 10:24 a.m.
Posts: 3154
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: Sethimus

Posted by: three-sheets

... and thats if the local grid can even handle users upgradi g to 200a service.

As ive said before, there needs to ba a standard set for a quickly swappable battery, you pull into your favorite battery station and the battery is swapped out whike the attendant washes your windshield . You pay for a fully charged battery, based based on the remaining charge left in the one your returning.

Too easy.

sounds good, stiffles innovation. where’s the incentive for better batteries?

The battery case and connectors can be standardized, and then batteries inside it can be swapped out. DeWalt just did this with their power tools, upgraded the batteries but the casing and interface remained the same.


 Last edited by: syncro on Dec. 14, 2021, 10:25 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Reason: sp
Dec. 15, 2021, 8:45 p.m.
Posts: 191
Joined: March 12, 2021

The last couple pages had some chatter about Level 1 vs Level 2 charging.

I can confirm - level 1 charging takes a long time.  Our car gets about 450km range.  My wife uses about 300km range per week.  So we plug in to our Level 1 charger on Friday after work and then leave it plugged in until Monday morning.  Call it 5pm Friday to 7am Monday, less 2 - 4 hours that we use the car over the weekend to shuttle the kids to sports or run errands.  So about 60 hours of charging.  We typically recover about 300km - 325km range in that time.

It works nicely for us for the the time being.  If my wife ends up teaching at a school that is any further away, we may have to plug in more frequently.

Fortunately, almost every rec. centre or facility that we take our kids to for sports or other activities has a level 2 charger that is free to use (as long as you have the free BC Hydro App and/or card).  I don't always take advantage of this free energy, but usually I do.  If someone offered you 10 - 20 litres of free gas just for parking at their facility while you watch your kid practice would you say no?

Why don't we install a Level 2 charger at home?

For one, we don't really need it - but it is a luxury we do want eventually, I think.  The barrier of entry is that our old electric panel is full.  So we could install a switch and route the Level 2 charger off of our clothes dryer, but then we cannot dry clothes' when charging or vice versa.

Replacing the electrical panel is not a simple or cheap endeavor. I was quoted $2500 - $5000 for the panel, depending on what we want.  But there is also about $4000 - $5000 in labour to dig the trench* needed to replace the wire since it is highly unlikely that they will be able to pull it through the existing buried conduit (assuming there is even buried conduit).  BC Hydro also has a flat connection fee of like $1500 you have to pay as well.

SO even though the cost of the Level 2 charger is not all that much, and it is subsidized, I have to spend $9,000 - $12,000 before I even factor those costs into the equation.

At this point we know we are within a a couple years of doing renovations - and at that time we would like to upgrade the furnace and/or install a heat pump - which will require a new panel.

So we are basically making due until we are ready to do it all at once - because I don't want to do it twice...  I just paid $5000 last summer to dig a trench when our water main burst, so I have bad memories of that still :)

*Yes I know I could dig the trench myself but I won't.  Two summers ago the neighbour and I dug about 14 post holes when we replaced our mutual fence and that's the last digging I am doing on my plot of land.  The top 30 inches is basically rubble, rocks, roots, and backfill, with just enough soil to sustain sod over top.

Dec. 15, 2021, 9:44 p.m.
Posts: 365
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: Ride.DMC

So we could install a switch and route the Level 2 charger off of our clothes dryer, but then we cannot dry clothes' when charging

9k to 12k vs juggling the drier and charging. Does seem that hard to not run the drier and the charger at the same time. 

Maybe I am biased there as we haven't had a drier for 10 years.

Dec. 16, 2021, 12:46 p.m.
Posts: 2574
Joined: April 2, 2005

an extra plug for a dryer, what an alien concept, lol. every plug is just 16A, 230V.


 Last edited by: Sethimus on Dec. 16, 2021, 12:49 p.m., edited 2 times in total.
Dec. 16, 2021, 2:50 p.m.
Posts: 365
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

30A 230v circuit for drier and 40A 230v for electric range stove here.

Dec. 18, 2021, 10:40 a.m.
Posts: 3834
Joined: May 23, 2006

Cobalt, a key metallic element used in lithium batteries and other “green” technology, is sourced from slave labor in the Democratic Republic of Congo. As the West points the finger at China, the US Africa Command is indirectly policing mining operations that profit US corporations.

https://thegrayzone.com/2021/11/30/africom-corporations-dr-congo-climate-china/

Dec. 22, 2021, 9:42 a.m.
Posts: 16818
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

Posted by: earleb

30A 230v circuit for drier and 40A 230v for electric range stove here.

50A for stove.

Dec. 22, 2021, 9:47 a.m.
Posts: 16818
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

Posted by: tungsten

Cobalt, a key metallic element used in lithium batteries and other “green” technology, is sourced from slave labor in the Democratic Republic of Congo. As the West points the finger at China, the US Africa Command is indirectly policing mining operations that profit US corporations.

https://thegrayzone.com/2021/11/30/africom-corporations-dr-congo-climate-china/

Cobalt is used in lots of things, not just EV components. However, battery and EV manufacters are finding ways to reduce or remove cobalt from their processes. But as usual, you would rather shit all over a new and improved way of doing things than actually learn meaningful facts.

So please ... tell us again how it's better to continue extracting and burning fossil fuels.

Dec. 22, 2021, 9:54 a.m.
Posts: 3154
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: KenN

Posted by: tungsten

Cobalt, a key metallic element used in lithium batteries and other “green” technology, is sourced from slave labor in the Democratic Republic of Congo. As the West points the finger at China, the US Africa Command is indirectly policing mining operations that profit US corporations.

https://thegrayzone.com/2021/11/30/africom-corporations-dr-congo-climate-china/

Cobalt is used in lots of things, not just EV components. However, battery and EV manufacters are finding ways to reduce or remove cobalt from their processes. But as usual, you would rather shit all over a new and improved way of doing things than actually learn meaningful facts.

So please ... tell us again how it's better to continue extracting and burning fossil fuels.

Tungsten's not necessarily wrong on this one, but neither are you. Dealing with the truth of some of the negatives of EV's doesn't completely discount the concept of EV's, it just shows that corp's and governments need to do a better job in how we work with others. Let's not sweep under the rug the fact that our comfortable way of life is largely built on exploiting the labour and environments of marginalized peoples around the world.

Dec. 22, 2021, 10:09 a.m.
Posts: 3834
Joined: May 23, 2006

Posted by: KenN

So please ... tell us again how it's better to continue extracting and burning fossil fuels.

Seriously, dude, I'm not advocating that.

https://fpif.org/the-selling-of-degrowth/


 Last edited by: tungsten on Dec. 22, 2021, 10:10 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Dec. 22, 2021, 1:40 p.m.
Posts: 2574
Joined: April 2, 2005

afaik only the american made teslas + the china performance models are still made with cobalt batteries, all other china tesla models are lfp based by now and so will the german ones soon too

Dec. 23, 2021, 10:52 a.m.
Posts: 2574
Joined: April 2, 2005

https://electrek.co/2021/12/23/taiga-motors-first-production-electric-snowmobile/

one excuse less


 Last edited by: Sethimus on Dec. 23, 2021, 10:52 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Dec. 23, 2021, 3:45 p.m.
Posts: 365
Joined: Feb. 24, 2017

Posted by: Sethimus

https://electrek.co/2021/12/23/taiga-motors-first-production-electric-snowmobile/

one excuse less

Some testing and promo filming was done with one of these sleds up near Whistler....a heli was used to bring a big recharge battery bank up into the alpine so they could get more time. What's the carbon footprint of jet-a burned in an A-Star?

Dec. 23, 2021, 11:58 p.m.
Posts: 34067
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

The Mercedes EQS and the Lucid Air are impressive, but so is the price tag.  When is the Ferdinand Porsche of the EV age going to bring us an VW equivalent?

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