New posts

Electric Vehicle (EV) discussion thread

April 2, 2014, 10:22 p.m.
Posts: 1769
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Sadly, that's the way of it. We try to save at home because both my wife and I hate waste. But the majority won't change until it affects their wallet. At 7.5 cents/kWh, we in BC have some of the cheapest power rates in all of North America, yet you'd think the world was ending - because up until April 1, it was 6.9 cents/kWh. People are going insane because it's gone from stupid cheap to just normal cheap.

yeah in bc we're far worse off in that respect than many other places. for example trying to get people into the idea of water conservation is a lost cause, the reply is always "why? we'll never run out of water as it rains too much here."

i see it any time i have to do a dump run as well, the amount of material that goes into the garbage that could easily be recycled is stupid. same thing with garbage at home - the cardboard bin is right next to the garbage bin yet there always seems to be carboard boxes in the garbage. and then i get funny looks from people when i pull the cardboard out of the garbage and put it in the recycling bin.

glad you're having fun with the car though, even if the dash is fugly ;)
the one thing i do appreciate about the large screen is the visuals for nav. however hard controls on the dash are nice due to the tactile feel - being able to reach out and turn up the a/c or what have you without having to look at the screen to make sure you're in the right spot is nice

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity ~ Seneca

April 2, 2014, 10:27 p.m.
Posts: 16697
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

I am actually quite optimistic about the change in transportation now, Tesla has reached critical mass, it won't be prone to manipulation and isn't an arm of a larger motor co that has incentives to kill EV.

Keeping in mind that Mercedes owns 10% of Tesla … but they have no interest in killing this goose. Tesla manufactures the batteries and drivetrain for the electric Smart and I think they'll be doing the same for the A-class. Also, there's some kind of deal with Toyota for the RAV4 electric.

Tesla will be a game changer in more than just obvious ways.

Exactly. And I so love to see underdogs like this disrupt an entire industry that's overgrown and fat. Tesla is changing not only the way people view electric cars, but everything from design to production and sales methods are getting hit hard. I love that the auto dealers in the US are getting so nervous about this little company that they feel they need to squeeze politicians. They make themselves look so stupid.

When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity.

When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called religion.

April 3, 2014, 4:58 a.m.
Posts: 2289
Joined: April 2, 2005

that's a fallacy though as the need to conserve shouldn't be based on cost, imo it shoudl be based on the idea of only using what you need without creating unecessary waste. i agree though that people will start to conserve once the prices go up. unfortunately that tends to be the only motivator for a large portion of the population.

true, but another one is the source of the energy. am i correct if i assume that most if not all power in bc is produced in hydro plants? if you already know you're using clean energy the incentive to save it seems lower to me because it's already a "good" technology.

MTB-Freeride.TV

April 3, 2014, 5:04 a.m.
Posts: 2289
Joined: April 2, 2005

Keeping in mind that Mercedes owns 10% of Tesla … but they have no interest in killing this goose. Tesla manufactures the batteries and drivetrain for the electric Smart and I think they'll be doing the same for the A-class. Also, there's some kind of deal with Toyota for the RAV4 electric.

Exactly. And I so love to see underdogs like this disrupt an entire industry that's overgrown and fat. Tesla is changing not only the way people view electric cars, but everything from design to production and sales methods are getting hit hard. I love that the auto dealers in the US are getting so nervous about this little company that they feel they need to squeeze politicians. They make themselves look so stupid.

ever heard of car2go? these are now everywhere here in stuttgart, a big fleet of electric smarts that are parked all over the city. just reserve it in the app, open it with a rfid tag on your drivers licence and off you go. you pay by the min/h/day.

lots of friends using it for shopping trips and don't own a car anymore. if you need a bigger one there are serveral other car sharing companies around. for everthing else there's public transport (the most expensive in germany though)

MTB-Freeride.TV

April 3, 2014, 5:55 a.m.
Posts: 33676
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

that's a fallacy though as the need to conserve shouldn't be based on cost, imo it shoudl be based on the idea of only using what you need without creating unecessary waste. i agree though that people will start to conserve once the prices go up. unfortunately that tends to be the only motivator for a large portion of the population.

Still a lot of trucks and SUVs being built and sold in NA, with the ever growing push for which truck or vehicle has the most HP or torque in its class. Perhaps having a gasoline powered vehicle is somewhat habitual and people will shift where there money is spent.

Personally, I think that technological breakthroughs will be the biggest factor by far in reducing gas powered vehicles. The Tesla is an example of that. So are advancing technologies in Hybrids, like what started with the Insight and then moved onto the Prius and now to something like the Accord Hybrid. Adoption has been slow, but over the 15 or so years of hybrids the range, performance, and usability have grown while pricing has dropped. Double battery density and then move to consumer grade hybrids (basic vehicle instead of a lot of options thrown in to make price high) and demand will sharply increase.

I've wondered how the petroleum industry is or will be dealing with a movement away from their product. If a lot more NG, coal, and wind/solar are used in industry, and hybrid/electric grows a lot in automotive, oil demand is going to decrease. Revenue will drop. The only options are to increase product cost (which will decrease consumption and still drop revenue), or to drop product cost so that consumption remains high.

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

April 3, 2014, 6:30 a.m.
Posts: 2289
Joined: April 2, 2005

I've wondered how the petroleum industry is or will be dealing with a movement away from their product. If a lot more NG, coal, and wind/solar are used in industry, and hybrid/electric grows a lot in automotive, oil demand is going to decrease. Revenue will drop. The only options are to increase product cost (which will decrease consumption and still drop revenue), or to drop product cost so that consumption remains high.

that's not the only movement going on. ppl dumping their car is the other one. cars as a service is gonna be huge in the future

MTB-Freeride.TV

April 3, 2014, 6:53 a.m.
Posts: 33676
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

I don't think that will be as popular in NA. The geography is one thing, but there's the mindset of ownership. Even types of fuel are different. We have almost all gasoline cars with electric/hybrid making inroads, and in Europe diesel and CNG are taking over.

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

April 3, 2014, 7:08 a.m.
Posts: 12817
Joined: Jan. 27, 2003

Imagine if we could get to a point where you could drive 500+ kms then stop, whip out your fold out solar panel and windmill with an accessory that clamps it to the car, camp for a couple days then drive another 500+ kms..

www.natooke.com

April 3, 2014, 7:09 a.m.
Posts: 4953
Joined: Nov. 25, 2002

that's not the only movement going on. ppl dumping their car is the other one. cars as a service is gonna be huge in the future

these programs make a lot of sense (in urban areas, anyways). the resources many of us unnecessarily spend on car ownership is ridiculous. alas, the car fetish, and the associated status / prestige of owning such things is hard to overcome. I've been a car nerd since forever, but these days when I see an exotic on the street (a handful every day it seems), i'm more inclined to think how that gratuitous lump of cash could be better utilized for societal benefit rather than as a shiny trinket. i think i'm turning into a hippie in my old(er) age.

that said, i'm all over ev development. it's got to happen, and the sooner the better. the tesla is a neat piece of tech.

April 3, 2014, 8:05 a.m.
Posts: 1186
Joined: Oct. 21, 2008

What if someone is already plugged into the charging station when you get there?

I ask because the Tim Hortons near my house has an EV charging dock installed in one of their parking stalls - but there is only 1 of them. Not an issue right now, but as EV's become more popular (because let's face it; they should/will) it will become an issue.

Do the supercharging stations you mention have more than one outlet (or whatever they have) so that multiple vehicles can be charging at the same time? Or, if you pull into Merrit on your way to Kamloops or wherever, are you waiting until the person in front of you has finished the 30, 60, or 90 minute re-charge?

April 3, 2014, 8:19 a.m.
Posts: 1769
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

true, but another one is the source of the energy. am i correct if i assume that most if not all power in bc is produced in hydro plants? if you already know you're using clean energy the incentive to save it seems lower to me because it's already a "good" technology.

yes most of it is, but locally in vancouver there is the burrard thermal plant which is natural gas fired and produces 7.5% of the provices electricity. how "clean" hydro power is depends on how you feel about flooding a valley bottom behind a dam. imo whether the energy is perceived as clean or not shouldn't be a factor in how much one decides to use; that attitude is the problem and should change. we shouldn't feel free to use as much as we want just because something is cheap or environmentally friendly or abundant.

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity ~ Seneca

April 3, 2014, 8:34 a.m.
Posts: 7306
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

I don't think Burrard is producing any power at all.

Globe and Mail.

"But although Burrard Thermal was on standby, it was rarely put into use. According to BC Hydro’s 2013 annual report, the facility has operated at less than 1-per-cent capacity in each of the past five years.

In the year ended March 31, 2013, Burrard Thermal generated a mere 25-gigawatt hours of electricity – or zero per cent of BC Hydro’s overall supply – compared with nearly 16,000 gigawatt hours, or 18.2 per cent of total supply, churned out by the G.M. Shrum generating station on the Peace River."

I think the plan is to have any generating ability to be shut down by 2016. It will continue to be used to smooth out power supply, but the boilers would be removed at some point. The latest I've heard is they plan on delaying that 2016 date……

April 3, 2014, 8:35 a.m.
Posts: 16697
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

What if someone is already plugged into the charging station when you get there?

I ask because the Tim Hortons near my house has an EV charging dock installed in one of their parking stalls - but there is only 1 of them. Not an issue right now, but as EV's become more popular (because let's face it; they should/will) it will become an issue.

Most (not all) EV stations have at least two charging bays. If you have a look at the plugshare.com site though, you'll see that there are a LOT of charging sites. So in most cases if you're in a pinch because of low battery, you can find a station close by. Plugshare is a must have smartphone app for EV drivers. It's kind a wiki-style database for charging stations. Members can add new stations and descriptions to the database, or update operating status.

You'll certainly find things a little more sparse in outlying areas, but for just about everything from Vancouver down the west coast to San Diego there are is a lot of charging available.

Also, expect this to keep growing. More EVs will mean more charging installed.

Do the supercharging stations you mention have more than one outlet (or whatever they have) so that multiple vehicles can be charging at the same time? Or, if you pull into Merrit on your way to Kamloops or wherever, are you waiting until the person in front of you has finished the 30, 60, or 90 minute re-charge?

The Tesla s/c stations all have a minimum of 4 charging bays. Tesla monitors the usage quite well, and they expand as needed. I know that a couple of sites in the LA and SF area have grown already, and the network is only about a year old.

Also interesting is the way the EV 'community' works. Once you get plugged in (haha) you find a lot of EV owners open up their home chargers for others to use.

When one person suffers from a delusion, it is called insanity.

When many people suffer from a delusion, it is called religion.

April 3, 2014, 8:42 a.m.
Posts: 1769
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

I don't think Burrard is producing any power at all.

Globe and Mail.

"But although Burrard Thermal was on standby, it was rarely put into use. According to BC Hydro’s 2013 annual report, the facility has operated at less than 1-per-cent capacity in each of the past five years.

In the year ended March 31, 2013, Burrard Thermal generated a mere 25-gigawatt hours of electricity – or zero per cent of BC Hydro’s overall supply – compared with nearly 16,000 gigawatt hours, or 18.2 per cent of total supply, churned out by the G.M. Shrum generating station on the Peace River."

I think the plan is to have any generating ability to be shut down by 2016. It will continue to be used to smooth out power supply, but the boilers would be removed at some point. The latest I've heard is they plan on delaying that 2016 date……

i got that number from hydro's site: http://www.bchydro.com/content/BCHydro/en/energy-in-bc/our_system/generation.html

i wonder if the difference is how the numbers are interpreted. ie the total amount of electricity produced vs the amount used in bc. bc exports a lot of power so that's where the difference may lie?

Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity ~ Seneca

April 3, 2014, 8:44 a.m.
Posts: 7306
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

As EV starts to become more common place, I'm curious as to how the government will go about collecting taxes that they presently collect from fuel at the pumps. You would think at some point they would want the money…..?? Roughly 30% tax is collected on a fuel at the pump…at some point someone is going to start missing that.

So if you're charging at home would they set up a meter that is just for the car charging system?

I would think there would need to be a ton more EV's out there for there to be a concern but at some point it would become worth it to collect.

Hopefully I'm not showing my stupid on the question above…lol.

Forum jump: