So there are no Tatonka in northwest BC, it was just one of buddie's stock FN kitchen jokes
The Office of the Wetsueten is right across from the craft brew so the lights and camera of at least 3 netwerks were set up and everyone came in to use the washroom between the living expenses for cops/ the press/ government its all good for local economy
The FN are blockading & protesting because they are being told what to do ... I wouldn't presume to tell them anything
Posted by: syncro
Posted by: chupacabra
This is the history that is usually shared, but it should include how and why so many non-natives came to Canada and not just their relation to the British and Canadian governments. This is why I object to being called a settler. It is a way of framing the narrative that Canadian history is that of white people landing on the shores and looking at all the resources for the taking when that is not the reality for most non-native Canadian family histories. This history that most of us know, the one in this link above, is the personal gut-wrenching history of the first nations vs the cold political apparatus of the government and racism. It doesn't say anything of the stories of the people fleeing famine, or the many reasons that someone would leave their family and everything they have ever known to have a better life in a place they have never been and will likely never return from. These are people that were as connected to the lands they came from as the native people that lived here but were so desperate they left it all. This is not a story that can be reversed, so we need to decide together what the future looks like, and if the attitude of the courts is that the millions of non-native residents are just people knocking on the door it will not work.
This is what is going on in the small town I grew up in. https://www.coastreporter.net/opinion/editorial/editorial-madeira-park-is-more-than-just-a-pretty-name-1.24075707 This is how unrest is created by a government more interested in looking progressive than doing their job for the people that elected them. Madeira Park is a community formed over 100 years ago, not a mountain or an island, and as you can see the history is complicated. This comes after a dock plan that was very unpopular and a number of longhouses were built in local parks as territory flags. In some cases, landowners that only have water access to their properties are being told they must remove their docks. Most of it happened without consulting the community. This can't be the answer. If Pender Harbour wasn't a tiny town this would be much bigger news. Imagine if the Ironworkers Bridge had to come down because it was over a traditional oyster ground.
If we can't agree on a plan that puts us on equal ground in the future we are screwed.
My point is not to discount the contribution of non-Indigenous people towards the building of Canada, but recognize that building came at the expense of the peoples who were here first and it continues to affect them to this day. The predecessors of modern Canada destroyed cultures from coast to coast to coast and you and I are reaping those benefits today. I share the idea that there are some compromises to be made on both sides, but I believe you would have a hard time convincing the majority of Indigenous people that their lives are much better off after colonization than before.
It's a complicated issue but if you wanted to boil it all down to one word that word is trust. Indigenous people in this country generally do not trust "whitey" and his government and I think it's more than fair to say we haven't given them good reason to. That's not to say there aren't good people out there trying to do good things and rebuild some of that trust, but on a whole we're doing a shitty job. We have to be the ones to make the first move, so when Horgan refused to meet with the herditary chiefs a few weeks ago that sent the age old message that Indigenous people don't matter. Does an action like that build trust or break it? Right now Indigenous people have the upper hand when it comes to rail blockades and they could shut down this country indefinitely if they really wanted to. Our governments need to start off with doing some grovelling if they're going to get this sorted out.
I wasn't trying to criticize you, and you are probably correct in assuming a lot of the country doesn't know this history. It was horrible and did irreparable damage to the first nation's lives and culture. Nothing can give that back to them, but I think we should try. Land claims are a more complicated issue and one of the main reasons BC is at the forefront of these legal battles is that the original immigrants were not settlers in the same sense as the east coast. They didn't arrive in ships en masse to build towns and new societies. They didn't go to war with the native peoples so there were no surrenders and no peace treaties. Instead, we have a complicated history like that of Madeira Park and the legacy of government-endorsed racism.
I agree with you on the trust. That is why our current approach is so harmful. We have decisions that give first nations rights over the land, but not ownership, so they can't just say "no" and have the full rights that any property owner would have. We also have agreements that don't consider both sides. Take the Pender Harbour Dock Management plan for example.
So if you own a dock there, and if you look at the map you can see there are plenty of them, you can't replace your aging dock unless you hire an archeologist and meet the management plan requirements and even then it will only be considered. In the most stringent zone, you are SOL and you no longer have a dock. This plan was developed without any input from the community because their history is irrelevant. Many of the dock owners are fishermen that have already given up various fisheries in other agreements with other first nations and now they want to change the name of the main parts of town, again, with no consultation. Trust is a 2 way street.
The problem with the government groveling is that it comes in the form of sacrificing rural communities. Some of the worst land stealing in the province happened right here in Vancouver's Stanley Park, but there are too many votes. Instead, the communities that have actually been living side by side with first nations people the whole time are the sacrificial lambs.
Posted by: chupacabra
I wasn't trying to criticize you
Take the Pender Harbour Dock Management plan for example.
So if you own a dock there, and if you look at the map you can see there are plenty of them, you can't replace your aging dock unless you hire an archeologist and meet the management plan requirements and even then it will only be considered. In the most stringent zone, you are SOL and you no longer have a dock. This plan was developed without any input from the community because their history is irrelevant. Many of the dock owners are fishermen that have already given up various fisheries in other agreements with other first nations and now they want to change the name of the main parts of town, again, with no consultation. Trust is a 2 way street.
The problem with the government groveling is that it comes in the form of sacrificing rural communities. Some of the worst land stealing in the province happened right here in Vancouver's Stanley Park, but there are too many votes. Instead, the communities that have actually been living side by side with first nations people the whole time are the sacrificial lambs.
Don't worry about it, I didn't take it that way, it's just back and forth discussion.
I agree there needs to be some concession and understanding on the part of Indigenous people as well. Part of the problem is trying to comes to terms with 300 year old injustices in the context of modern life. We can't just turn back the clock for the sake of land claims and ignore the benefits and opportunities of modern life that exist. From a groveling standpoint I was thinking about how discussion takes place. IMO Trudeau and Horgan should have been meeting with these chiefs much earlier in consideration of how their culture operates.
Delgamuukw which they won states Its their land / their rules/ they never gave up their territory/ they never negotiated anything and now its a big fucking mess, I think Horgan and trudeau figured they could just slide this by on some ignorant FN but it would appear they got their cocks stuck in their zippers and now they are having to deal with blockades and negotiate some very big time shit
I will say in my 15 yars here in the narthwest ove r and over again I seen industry and gov underestimate the FN, the leaf likers and the Hipnecks
Posted by: XXX_er
Delgamuukw which they won states Its their land / their rules/ they never gave up their territory/ they never negotiated anything and now its a big fucking mess, I think Horgan and trudeau figured they could just slide this by on some ignorant FN but it would appear they got their cocks stuck in their zippers and now they are having to deal with blockades and negotiate some very big time shit
I will say in my 15 yars here in the narthwest ove r and over again I seen industry and gov underestimate the FN, the leaf likers and the Hipnecks
Or perhaps the FN can still assess the situation - if the leader is weak...
Posted by: XXX_er
Delgamuukw which they won states Its their land / their rules/ they never gave up their territory/ they never negotiated anything and now its a big fucking mess, I think Horgan and trudeau figured they could just slide this by on some ignorant FN but it would appear they got their cocks stuck in their zippers and now they are having to deal with blockades and negotiate some very big time shit
I will say in my 15 yars here in the narthwest ove r and over again I seen industry and gov underestimate the FN, the leaf likers and the Hipnecks
But it didn't though. That is why this is a mess. And could it give First Nations full control over their traditional territory considering there are overlapping claims?
In the Delgamuukw decision, Chief Justice Antonio Lamer outlined that Aboriginal title "encompasses the right to exclusive use and occupation of the land."
However, the decision also notes that Aboriginal rights could justifiably be infringed for the development of agriculture, forestry, mining, and "the general economic development of the interior of British Columbia." Lamer determined the issue should be examined on a case-by-case basis.
According to a 2014 judgment, infringements can only take place only when there's adequate consultation, and "the benefit to the public is proportionate to any adverse effect on the Aboriginal interest."
This is where I think the First Nations have to make some hard decisions and stop shooting for the moon. If they were working together and calling for full ownership of a territory that is not a complete map of everywhere they once roamed they could have real control over their lands, just less of it. That is a decent compromise IMO. Then they could use it, not use it, log it, sell it, but most importantly keep those they don't want there off the land.
Delgamuukw initialy was lost then was won on Appeal at which point it stopped and ran out of steam, most of the FN who fought it are now dead so it only got so far
CGL comes along just looking for someone to sign when the Heredtiary Chiefs would not, and thats the Band councils, it didnt matter that the Band councils were imposed by government had no authority and everybody knew what was going on
In any case the pipeline ship has likely sailed but the hornets nest has been stirred what all this latest action will do is force governments to finish what Delgamuukw started and it will set precedent across Canada
if all the bands really wanted a pipeline or just to make money form it all 20 of them should have negotiated as one and they would have got orders of magnitude more money. The Gitxsan and Wetsueten have stuck together for hundreds of years ( otherwise they would be Haida )so they know this, and now they stand togetehr
Terry Glavin was a cub reporter up here when he imbedded wrote " A Death Feast in Dimlahamid " about Delgamuukw a small book and its probably in yer local library
Sorry xxx...i know you have your townie opinions, but Troy tells it like it is.
Posted by: Endurimil
Interesting read,
Good read. Thanks.
Its wonderful to have the perspective of someone who doesn't even live in the territory at least half the time !
in any case its Internal politics, there are many sides to it and I would not be arrogant enough to tell them how to run their business
But after Delgamuukw the liberal gov sat on things for >20 yars, so I will tell you how it is ... now we got the mess we got
This was from March 9th and a worthy read on the current stance of the Tyendinaga First Nations stance on the now abandoned blockade.
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