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Do you support or agree with the nationwide Protests?

Feb. 25, 2020, 11:38 a.m.
Posts: 10389
Joined: June 29, 2006

Posted by: KenN

Posted by: chupacabra

Posted by: KenN

Scalping was a practice imported by the European settlers in the Connecticut and Massachusetts colonies, as a way account for paying bounties for killing natives.

Cartier was shown several scalps by natives in what is now Quebec though, so I am not so sure that it wasn't an existing practice within some of the first nations.

There is apparently some evidence that some warring FN tribes practised it long ago (like 1300s) as a trophy of battle, but a bit more spotty about whether it was carried out much later than that. But there is solid evidence of a separate historical record of paying bounties for scalps within the settler communities.

Fair enough, although the Cartier record is also solid evidence of the practice in the early 1500s and it is far from the settler colonies you are talking about.  There are a lot of different first nations across the Americas so it could easily be the case that both are true.

Feb. 26, 2020, 8:45 a.m.
Posts: 16212
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

Posted by: aShogunNamedMarcus

Has any one in the media quantified the cost of this blockade yet?

Dunno.

Has anyone in the media quantified the cost of taking children from their parents and forcing them into residential schools?

Has anyone in the media quantified the cost of forcing indigenous peoples to live in substandard housing, breathing mold spores that affect their health?

Has anyone in the media quantified the cost of being forced to eat fish caught from mercury-polluted waters in order to survive?

Has anyone in the media quantified the cost of having no clean drinking water for decades at over 100 reserves?

Instead of asking "how much it costs us", maybe start asking why it's happening, why nothing has been done for so long, and why the land protectors have come to the conclusion that nothing will be done going forward without large scale disruption.


 Last edited by: KenN on Feb. 26, 2020, 8:46 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Feb. 26, 2020, 12:15 p.m.
Posts: 14465
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

"Shared Histories, Witsuwit'en-Settler Relations in Smithers, British Columbia, 1913-1973 " is a book I'm trying to power thru written by Tyler McCreary an academic who grew up here, its a bit dry but solidly researched and it paints a dismal picture of the settler's atempts to exclude the FN, so the local FN experianced a lot of discrimination, as late as the 60's the only restaurant in town where an FN could get service was a Canadian Chinese food restaurant the North Star, that may sound like the southern USA but that was northern BC

The Wetsueten are the people who actualy won the court case over these lands, but they are still getting fucked over , so how much does it cost ? The question might be how much more does it need to cost so things get changed ?

Feb. 26, 2020, 1:24 p.m.
Posts: 13834
Joined: Dec. 30, 2002

Posted by: KenN

Posted by: aShogunNamedMarcus

Has any one in the media quantified the cost of this blockade yet?

Dunno.

Has anyone in the media quantified the cost of taking children from their parents and forcing them into residential schools?

Has anyone in the media quantified the cost of forcing indigenous peoples to live in substandard housing, breathing mold spores that affect their health?

Has anyone in the media quantified the cost of being forced to eat fish caught from mercury-polluted waters in order to survive?

Has anyone in the media quantified the cost of having no clean drinking water for decades at over 100 reserves?

Instead of asking "how much it costs us", maybe start asking why it's happening, why nothing has been done for so long, and why the land protectors have come to the conclusion that nothing will be done going forward without large scale disruption.

Well lets see, perhaps you should ask yourself if anyone in the Media cares about those STILL? Old info doesnt generate clicks or enough to make the money machine go around.

I was thinking what a shutdown of Broadway Cambie cost the City of Vancouver for that day. How many surgery's were cancelled or post poned being an arterial route by VGH. Did petty theft and property crime increase during that protest day because of the 40+ VPD required to monitor the unsanctioned event?

I dont keep track of native affairs for a few reasons. One is its a completely lopsided moral argument. Another is I had sweet fuck all to do it with, despite what you or Tungsten might want to say. Another being, you cant reason with the majority of the arguments - its like reparations.. Do they want their own Nisga Treaty too? Do they not get along with other bands?

Feb. 26, 2020, 1:27 p.m.
Posts: 13834
Joined: Dec. 30, 2002

Posted by: XXX_er
The Wetsueten are the people who actualy won the court case over these lands, but they are still getting fucked over , so how much does it cost ? The question might be how much more does it need to cost so things get changed ?

Stupid asshole question here: What did they win in the court case and what court case?

Feb. 26, 2020, 1:33 p.m.
Posts: 13834
Joined: Dec. 30, 2002

Posted by: chupacabra
Fair enough, although the Cartier record is also solid evidence of the practice in the early 1500s and it is far from the settler colonies you are talking about.  There are a lot of different first nations across the Americas so it could easily be the case that both are true.

Now moving past the the origins of scalping - why would the FN's stop this practice?

Feb. 26, 2020, 2:27 p.m.
Posts: 14465
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

Posted by: aShogunNamedMarcus

Posted by: XXX_er
The Wetsueten are the people who actualy won the court case over these lands, but they are still getting fucked over , so how much does it cost ? The question might be how much more does it need to cost so things get changed ?

Stupid asshole question here: What did they win in the court case and what court case?

They won Delgamuukw v. British Columbia,

https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/1569/index.d

Tsilcotin Nation vs British Columbia is also important & relevant

https://scc-csc.lexum.com/scc-csc/scc-csc/en/item/14246/index.do

If you really have absolutely no idea then here are Coles notes cuz I doubt you want to read the entire decisions

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/delgamuukw-vs-british-columbia-20-years-rights-titles-1.4440703

So not only is Delgammuukw an important precedent in land claims law this is where Delgamuukw took place,

somewhere back in this thread I wrote about the Royal proclaimation of 1763, it was susposed to run Canada after the English took it from the french and the FN were part of it but FF to 1984 the gov sez they when BC became part of Canada the FN lost their rights, Delgamuukw sez in BC the FN never gave up their lands,

they have their own system of gov which was recognised in Delgamuukw so the herdeitary chiefs run the 22000kms of territory and the elected band councils only run the res, the band councils were imposed under the indian act to control the FN

The hereditary Chiefs would not deal with CGL on the pipeline so they made a deal with the band councils who have no authority to do so

Christy Clarke gave the green light, people I know in gov tell me the gov knew, also the NDP MLA for the bulkley stikine told the leg what was up back then

Horgan has chose to play along, the courts grant an injunction in favor of CGL the RCMP have thrown the Wetsueten off their lands twice

Which has resulted in the Blockades and protests from bands all over Canada which are not going away any time soon, note there are 1 million FN in canada BTW and then you got who knows how many enviro folks jumping on the bandwagon

I heard the rail blockade was costing CN 1 million a day

so its at least costing millions

it was nice and quiet that week the trains were off

there is so much activity going on I can't see how the wetsueten can stop the project ... its a big fucking mess

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/wetsuweten-whos-who-guide-1.5471898

the playa's ^^ n


 Last edited by: XXX_er on Feb. 26, 2020, 4:59 p.m., edited 6 times in total.
Feb. 26, 2020, 6:56 p.m.
Posts: 662
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: aShogunNamedMarcus

Posted by: KenN

Posted by: aShogunNamedMarcus

Has any one in the media quantified the cost of this blockade yet?

Dunno.

Has anyone in the media quantified the cost of taking children from their parents and forcing them into residential schools?

Has anyone in the media quantified the cost of forcing indigenous peoples to live in substandard housing, breathing mold spores that affect their health?

Has anyone in the media quantified the cost of being forced to eat fish caught from mercury-polluted waters in order to survive?

Has anyone in the media quantified the cost of having no clean drinking water for decades at over 100 reserves?

Instead of asking "how much it costs us", maybe start asking why it's happening, why nothing has been done for so long, and why the land protectors have come to the conclusion that nothing will be done going forward without large scale disruption.

Well lets see, perhaps you should ask yourself if anyone in the Media cares about those STILL? Old info doesnt generate clicks or enough to make the money machine go around.

I was thinking what a shutdown of Broadway Cambie cost the City of Vancouver for that day. How many surgery's were cancelled or post poned being an arterial route by VGH. Did petty theft and property crime increase during that protest day because of the 40+ VPD required to monitor the unsanctioned event?

I dont keep track of native affairs for a few reasons. One is its a completely lopsided moral argument. Another is I had sweet fuck all to do it with, despite what you or Tungsten might want to say. Another being, you cant reason with the majority of the arguments - its like reparations.. Do they want their own Nisga Treaty too? Do they not get along with other bands?

Wow, so more than just hockey. Who knew?

Feb. 26, 2020, 7:12 p.m.
Posts: 662
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

So how do we feel about those “protesters” trying to set a loaded freight train on fire. Seems reasonable.

I do like that some of the usual suspects are getting outed for their habitual protesting. Basically shit disturbing anarchists who protest anything and everything under the sun and seem to be enjoying their time in the spotlight. How do you think FN really feel about their protest being hijacked for others political gain.

Feb. 26, 2020, 8:18 p.m.
Posts: 324
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: FLATCH

So how do we feel about those “protesters” trying to set a loaded freight train on fire. Seems reasonable.

I do like that some of the usual suspects are getting outed for their habitual protesting. Basically shit disturbing anarchists who protest anything and everything under the sun and seem to be enjoying their time in the spotlight. How do you think FN really feel about their protest being hijacked for others political gain.

Don't make the mistake of ignoring a serious issue simply because some nitwits have jumped on board the protest train.

Feb. 26, 2020, 8:29 p.m.
Posts: 324
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

here's a great history lesson to help explain why we've gotten to this point

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ob8FxjYbksJICPfIB2j0CLxNvrBLGusQ/view?fbclid=IwAR2ksfU4uLGd1lwMV-GMoEgb8ujhKHAqU5S-WkhJSVOv05cAdTsCa_mP_eU

Feb. 27, 2020, 9:58 a.m.
Posts: 10389
Joined: June 29, 2006

Posted by: syncro

here's a great history lesson to help explain why we've gotten to this point

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ob8FxjYbksJICPfIB2j0CLxNvrBLGusQ/view?fbclid=IwAR2ksfU4uLGd1lwMV-GMoEgb8ujhKHAqU5S-WkhJSVOv05cAdTsCa_mP_eU

This is the history that is usually shared, but it should include how and why so many non-natives came to Canada and not just their relation to the British and Canadian governments.  This is why I object to being called a settler.  It is a way of framing the narrative that Canadian history is that of white people landing on the shores and looking at all the resources for the taking when that is not the reality for most non-native Canadian family histories.  This history that most of us know, the one in this link above, is the personal gut-wrenching history of the first nations vs the cold political apparatus of the government and racism.  It doesn't say anything of the stories of the people fleeing famine, or the many reasons that someone would leave their family and everything they have ever known to have a better life in a place they have never been and will likely never return from.  These are people that were as connected to the lands they came from as the native people that lived here but were so desperate they left it all.  This is not a story that can be reversed, so we need to decide together what the future looks like, and if the attitude of the courts is that the millions of non-native residents are just people knocking on the door it will not work.

This is what is going on in the small town I grew up in.  https://www.coastreporter.net/opinion/editorial/editorial-madeira-park-is-more-than-just-a-pretty-name-1.24075707  This is how unrest is created by a government more interested in looking progressive than doing their job for the people that elected them.  Madeira Park is a community formed over 100 years ago, not a mountain or an island, and as you can see the history is complicated.  This comes after a dock plan that was very unpopular and a number of longhouses were built in local parks as territory flags.  In some cases, landowners that only have water access to their properties are being told they must remove their docks.  Most of it happened without consulting the community.  This can't be the answer.  If Pender Harbour wasn't a tiny town this would be much bigger news.  Imagine if the Ironworkers Bridge had to come down because it was over a traditional oyster ground.  

If we can't agree on a plan that puts us on equal ground in the future we are screwed.

Feb. 27, 2020, 11:18 a.m.
Posts: 14465
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

maybe we could call you second nations ?

Feb. 27, 2020, 11:28 a.m.
Posts: 14465
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

Posted by: syncro

here's a great history lesson to help explain why we've gotten to this point

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1ob8FxjYbksJICPfIB2j0CLxNvrBLGusQ/view?fbclid=IwAR2ksfU4uLGd1lwMV-GMoEgb8ujhKHAqU5S-WkhJSVOv05cAdTsCa_mP_eU

thats ^^  pretty much it, I should have just waited and saved some keyboard time 

Today I seen 6 cops who arent from here stuffing their faces at the breakfast place enforcing bogus court injunctions is a hungry  business, you do see the red dresses hanging on highway signs  but nothing unusual for the most part,   you folks see WAY more protesters down there than we do up here

Feb. 27, 2020, 12:32 p.m.
Posts: 10389
Joined: June 29, 2006

Posted by: XXX_er

maybe we could call you second nations ?

I am OK with that actually.

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