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Do you support or agree with the nationwide Protests?

Feb. 20, 2020, 9:36 a.m.
Posts: 14467
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

At least the OP got the title right , its a protest and not just about a pipeline. its about the BC gov's failing to deal with the situation for 257 yars, then Christy Clarke railroads (pun) this thru even tho the Heredetary Cheifs won't deal just find find anyone who will sign a deal and that was the band councils,  they had hoped to just let it slide, they thru a few natives in jail on 2 ocasions but they would have a major project to point at in a few years but its all blown up in Trudeau and Horgans face. Namoks has said he won't meet with Horgan cuz he disrespected him, won't meet with CGL, its pretty much gotta be Trudeau

The Mohawks back east are still blockading the CN line , the Wetsueten took down the highway blockade at Hazelton and Gitwangak after 2 hrs and the rail blockade came down a week ago Saturday but there were no trains going out to PR for a week which was actualy nice and quiet. The Wetsueten are pretty mellow IME, Namoks aint a bad guy, OTOH I would not want to fuck with the Mohawks, they remember Ipperwash & the killing of Dudley George

I drove the highway that day they blocked everything, if an extended family of cousins block the road there aint a damn thing a small detachment of RCMP can do but call for help. .


 Last edited by: XXX_er on Feb. 20, 2020, 10:47 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Feb. 20, 2020, 10:45 a.m.
Posts: 326
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: XXX_er

At least the OP got the title right , its a protest and not just about a pipeline. its about the BC gov's failing to deal with the situation for 257 yars, then Christy Clarke railroads (pun) this thru even tho the Heredetary Cheifs won't deal just find find anyone who will sign a deal and that was the band councils and at this point its all blown up in Trudeau and Horgans face. Namoks has said he won't meet with Horgan cuz he disrespected him, won't meet with CGL, its pretty much gotta be Trudeau

The Mohawks back east are still blockading the CN line , the Wetsueten took down the highway blockade at Hazelton and Gitwangak after 2 hrs and the rail blockade came down a week ago Saturday but there were no trains going out to PR for a week which was actualy nice and quiet. The Wetsueten are pretty mellow IME, Namoks aint a bad guy, OTOH I would not want to fuck with the Mohawks, they remember Ipperwash & the killing of Dudley George

I drove the highway that day they blocked everything, if an extended family of cousins block the road there aint a damn thing a small detachment of RCMP can do but call for help. .

re your other post, I figured you might have a better view of this thing than most living up narth. I'm guessing Namoks won't meet with Horgan now after Horgan initially said no. I was actually surprised at that, I thought Horgan would know better and would make the effort to at least establish good relations.

the blockages back east by the Mohawks are the ones to really worry about imo if this thing drags on. besides Ipperwash don't forget Oka. there's a warrior culture that still runs through their people and combine that with some of the attitudes of small town Ontario and things could get violent.


 Last edited by: syncro on Feb. 20, 2020, 11:21 a.m., edited 2 times in total.
Reason: sp
Feb. 20, 2020, 10:54 a.m.
Posts: 326
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

Posted by: JBV

do you think Canada is not being ethical about it, at least in recent times? we haven't always been, far from it, but i think the country is being as ethical as it can possibly be. i know this gets old, but i'ma say it anyways, imagine if this was the US, or oh, anywhere in the mid to far east? it would be a massacre.

I think we're trying to be ethical about it, but we can and should be doing better. The funny thing about bringing up the US example is that in some respects, Indigenous people down there fare better than Indigenous people in Canada. Land is one of those areas and I think comparatively speak they have about 3 times as much land. The danger with the US example is that it's usually not too difficult to find someone who's doing a worse job than you are. Instead of looking to examples that make our actions look good we should be comparing ourselves to a higher standard so we can do better.

Feb. 20, 2020, 11:04 a.m.
Posts: 10402
Joined: June 29, 2006

Posted by: KenN

http://activehistory.ca/2020/02/exposing-the-settler-playbook-responses-to-shutdowncanada-in-historical-context/

"Settlers use a number of strategies to maintain the colonial status quo, including distorting or dismissing the past, doublespeak and deceit, divide-and-conquer politics, paternalism, invoking a singular “rule of law,” and, of course, violence and coercion. Our hope is that by exposing some of the discursive tactics in the settler playbook – and putting them in historical context – we can help settlers to see these “moves to innocence” for what they are. As well, we want to show that settlers can choose how to respond in these moments. Instead of treading the familiar paths of colonial hubris that have led to so much pain and damage, we invite settlers to recognize the limits of our knowledge and experience and to listen to Indigenous elders, youth, scholars, and knowledge keepers. In the case of the Wet’suwet’en hereditary chiefs, their calls are clear: the RCMP must leave their territory and the Coastal GasLink project must pause for nation-to-nation negotiations.

We have heard from the brave people putting their bodies on the line at numerous blockades that they are not there for themselves but for future generations. As Dr. Karla Tait, director of programming for the Unist’ot’en Healing Centre, states, Wet’suwet’en women are taking a stand “to protect the lands for all the future generations that depend on it.” Land defenders are acting out of love and are taking risks to protect land and life for us all. Instead of deploying the same old tactics and strategies to talk down to Indigenous people and to justify violence against them, we want to find generative and life-affirming ways to respond that might help shape a new playbook based on respect, good relations, and reciprocity."

I guess I just want to know what is really in this new playbook.  It sounds nice, but what does it actually mean?  At the end of the day, there needs to be laws and regulations that govern us all regardless of whether or not some people hundreds of years ago gave some families hereditary powers.  Without clear borders between lands, this will go on forever.  I would like to give the bands lands in one mega-deal that settles this once and for all (wishful thinking I know).  If the pipeline goes through their territories then they have every legal right as owners to decide what to do and if they want their hereditary chiefs to decide, then that is fine.  

I don't think it is disrespectful to claim that ALL of us have rights and a say as to what we do with the land.  If they manage to stop the building of this pipeline I am happy with that outcome, but I don't like the idea that we are just settlers trying to make a deal for a place we can call home.  We are way past that.

Feb. 20, 2020, 11:14 a.m.
Posts: 10402
Joined: June 29, 2006

Posted by: tungsten

Posted by: FLATCH

You can’t compare a project that is economically beneficial to many, including their own, to Putin looking to annex a nation. You’re not down on Commercial are you.

Putin didn't annex a nation. He rescued the several generations of Russian speaking nationals who were the majority in Crimea from the facists installed in Ukraine by the psychotic yanke scum.

I was. Pffffffffffft...........

HAHA. He has really conned you. The area is about 60% Russian heritage, but how does that justify an invasion? Can France annex Quebec? Crimea should never have never been made part of Ukraine, but it was, by the Soviet Union.


 Last edited by: chupacabra on Feb. 20, 2020, 11:14 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Feb. 20, 2020, 11:17 a.m.
Posts: 14467
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

Yeah Horgan would have been on the phone to Trudeau, so just arrest some FN and this will all go away eventualy.

But its hasn't, instead it has blown up in their face big time because again here is whitey fucking over the FN ( of which there are almost 1 million in Canada) for all these years and this is the last straw so what you got here is Idle no more V2.0, so  I understand but did not expect this level of support & protest

The Wetsueten are a nation within a nation, if you don't believe that listen to an elder speak their language, I can't pronounce any of the words, when addressing a public gathering up here it is very customary to acknowledge that we are on unceded Wetsueten lands as a show of respect and SO as the leader of his nation Horgan has dissed the Wetsueten nation and so now its up to Trudeau is what I am reading

You got that 100% right about the Mohawk, yes I forgot Oka and I am betting the OPP are also pretty nervous about what could happen

the Wetsueten are not to be worried about IME the RCMP cleared the blockade twice with out any violnce, they are for the most part pretty chill,

I had a beer with John Risdale back in the day but I didn't know his traditional name or that he was a grand chief until I seen a picture of him in his button blanket at some protest , I seem to remember he was just a regular guy, we were talking about women and stuff guys talk about ... nothing about land claims eh


 Last edited by: XXX_er on Feb. 20, 2020, 11:44 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Feb. 20, 2020, 11:29 a.m.
Posts: 14467
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

Posted by: chupacabra

Posted by: KenN

http://activehistory.ca/2020/02/exposing-the-settler-playbook-responses-to-shutdowncanada-in-historical-context/

"Settlers use a number of strategies to maintain the colonial status quo, including distorting or dismissing the past, doublespeak and deceit, divide-and-conquer politics, paternalism, invoking a singular “rule of law,” and, of course, violence and coercion. Our hope is that by exposing some of the discursive tactics in the settler playbook – and putting them in historical context – we can help settlers to see these “moves to innocence” for what they are. As well, we want to show that settlers can choose how to respond in these moments. Instead of treading the familiar paths of colonial hubris that have led to so much pain and damage, we invite settlers to recognize the limits of our knowledge and experience and to listen to Indigenous elders, youth, scholars, and knowledge keepers. In the case of the Wet’suwet’en hereditary chiefs, their calls are clear: the RCMP must leave their territory and the Coastal GasLink project must pause for nation-to-nation negotiations.

We have heard from the brave people putting their bodies on the line at numerous blockades that they are not there for themselves but for future generations. As Dr. Karla Tait, director of programming for the Unist’ot’en Healing Centre, states, Wet’suwet’en women are taking a stand “to protect the lands for all the future generations that depend on it.” Land defenders are acting out of love and are taking risks to protect land and life for us all. Instead of deploying the same old tactics and strategies to talk down to Indigenous people and to justify violence against them, we want to find generative and life-affirming ways to respond that might help shape a new playbook based on respect, good relations, and reciprocity."

I guess I just want to know what is really in this new playbook. It sounds nice, but what does it actually mean? At the end of the day, there needs to be laws and regulations that govern us all regardless of whether or not some people hundreds of years ago gave some families hereditary powers. Without clear borders between lands, this will go on forever. I would like to give the bands lands in one mega-deal that settles this once and for all (wishful thinking I know). If the pipeline goes through their territories then they have every legal right as owners to decide what to do and if they want their hereditary chiefs to decide, then that is fine.

I don't think it is disrespectful to claim that ALL of us have rights and a say as to what we do with the land. If they manage to stop the building of this pipeline I am happy with that outcome, but I don't like the idea that we are just settlers trying to make a deal for a place we can call home. We are way past that.

they didnt thro up a fence around those 22,000 kms of land, I been behind the unistolten blockade doing forestry research by mtn bike we asked and they let us in, there is one bridge but you could get in if you had  a boat and thats how the land defender got back in, -32 that week pretty cold for a camp out 

but Delgamuukw and Tsilcotin decisions say the Wetsueten do have a say in what goes on because they never gave up their lands, read the Royal proclaimation of 1763 which was designed to run Canada after the english took it from the french

But you ARE just a settler, and your nation is was trying to steal it ... again


 Last edited by: XXX_er on Feb. 20, 2020, 11:34 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
Feb. 20, 2020, 1:06 p.m.
Posts: 14467
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

https://www.cbc.ca/news/indigenous/treaty-negotiator-letter-wetsuweten-1.5469932

A good artical on the BC gov " picking their indians "

" A former B.C. treaty negotiator is calling out the provincial government for its role in the Wet'suwet'en conflict over the Coastal GasLink pipeline, saying the provincial and federal governments acknowledged long ago that the hereditary chiefs are the appropriate people to negotiate with on matters of rights and title. "

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/south-shore-commute-1.5469503

" Legault said the Kahnawake blockade will not be dismantled by the Quebec government, because it is on Mohawk territory. "

must be chicken eh ^^ the Wetsueten blockades for rail & highway were also on their land, in fact all the way from Burnslake to Terrace the highway & CN main run thru FN land, so a big group of cousins can just walk out the door and have a blockade which is what they did


 Last edited by: XXX_er on Feb. 20, 2020, 1:26 p.m., edited 4 times in total.
Feb. 20, 2020, 6:35 p.m.
Posts: 1939
Joined: May 23, 2006

teh commies say...

*Shut Down Canada Until It Solves Its War, Oil, and Genocide Problem.*

*Canada should be shut down (as should the United States) until it recognizes that it has a problem and begins to mend its ways.*

And even if Canada didn’t need to be shut down, CANSEC would need to be shut down.

CANSEC is one of the largest annual weapons shows in North America. Here’s how it describes itself, a list of exhibitors, and a list of the members of the Canadian Association of Defence and Security Industries which hosts CANSEC.

CANSEC facilitates Canada’s role as a major weapons dealer to the world, and the second biggest weapons exporter to the Middle East. So does ignorance. In the late 1980s opposition to a forerunner of CANSEC called ARMX created a great deal of media coverage. The result was a new public awareness, which led to a ban on weapons shows on city property in Ottawa, which lasted 20 years.

The gap left by media silence on Canadian weapons dealing is filled with misleading claims about Canada’s supposed role as a peacekeeper and participant in supposedly humanitarian wars, as well as the non-legal justification for wars known as “the responsibility to protect.”

In reality, Canada is a major marketer and seller of weapons and components of weapons, with two of its top customers being the United States and Saudi Arabia. The United States is the world’s leading marketer and seller of weapons, some of which weapons contain Canadian parts. CANSEC’s exhibitors include weapons companies from Canada, the United States, the United Kingdom, and elsewhere.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/02/20/shut-down-canada-until-it-solves-its-war-oil-and-genocide-problem/

amen


 Last edited by: tungsten on Feb. 20, 2020, 6:41 p.m., edited 2 times in total.
Feb. 20, 2020, 9:44 p.m.
Posts: 11300
Joined: June 4, 2008

Posted by: tungsten

teh commies say...

*Shut Down Canada Until It Solves Its War, Oil, and Genocide Problem.*

*Canada should be shut down (as should the United States) until it recognizes that it has a problem and begins to mend its ways.*

And even if Canada didn’t need to be shut down, CANSEC would need to be shut down.

CANSEC is one of the largest annual weapons shows in North America. Here’s how it describes itself, a list of exhibitors, and a list of the members of the Canadian Association of Defence and Security Industries which hosts CANSEC.

CANSEC facilitates Canada’s role as a major weapons dealer to the world, and the second biggest weapons exporter to the Middle East. So does ignorance. In the late 1980s opposition to a forerunner of CANSEC called ARMX created a great deal of media coverage. The result was a new public awareness, which led to a ban on weapons shows on city property in Ottawa, which lasted 20 years.

The gap left by media silence on Canadian weapons dealing is filled with misleading claims about Canada’s supposed role as a peacekeeper and participant in supposedly humanitarian wars, as well as the non-legal justification for wars known as “the responsibility to protect.”

In reality, Canada is a major marketer and seller of weapons and components of weapons, with two of its top customers being the United States and Saudi Arabia. The United States is the world’s leading marketer and seller of weapons, some of which weapons contain Canadian parts. CANSEC’s exhibitors include weapons companies from Canada, the United States, the United Kingdom, and elsewhere.

https://www.counterpunch.org/2020/02/20/shut-down-canada-until-it-solves-its-war-oil-and-genocide-problem/

amen

If Putin was doing this, would you be ok with it?

Feb. 20, 2020, 10:26 p.m.
Posts: 33281
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

If Putin was doing this, would you be ok with it?

If?

Feb. 21, 2020, 12:23 a.m.
Posts: 11300
Joined: June 4, 2008

I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and that when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress. I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that the present tension in the South is a necessary phase of the transition from an obnoxious negative peace, in which the Negro passively accepted his unjust plight, to a substantive and positive peace, in which all men will respect the dignity and worth of human personality. Actually, we who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured.

Feb. 21, 2020, 12:26 a.m.
Posts: 11300
Joined: June 4, 2008

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2019/06/03/investigations/exclusive-alberta-warned-it-could-take-2800-years-clean-oilpatch

Feb. 21, 2020, 1:16 a.m.
Posts: 11300
Joined: June 4, 2008

Posted by: ReductiMat

https://www.nationalobserver.com/2019/06/03/investigations/exclusive-alberta-warned-it-could-take-2800-years-clean-oilpatch

(For the homeschooled, that isn't fiscally conservative)

Feb. 21, 2020, 10:22 a.m.
Posts: 1939
Joined: May 23, 2006

Posted by: ReductiMat

I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and that when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress. I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that the present tension in the South is a necessary phase of the transition from an obnoxious negative peace, in which the Negro passively accepted his unjust plight, to a substantive and positive peace, in which all men will respect the dignity and worth of human personality. Actually, we who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured.

If you're going to quote Dr. King please have the decency to attribute his words to him. And during black history month! You should be ashamed of yourself. Now go stand in the corner.

If Putin was doing this, would you be ok with it?

Go d/t and punch a native person in the face. I dare you.

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