do I buy an iPhone now??

Jobs is a whiny, spiteful baby. His arguments are the definition of "pot calling kettle black".

QUOTE]

Couldn't agree more with this. Apple just released a fix for 48 vulnerabilities in their browser. Fixing them is a good thing, but for Jobs to cite security as the reason for no flash reeks of hypocrisy.

http://www.zdnet.com/blog/security/apple-plugs-48-safari-webkit-security-holes/6623?tag=mantle_skin;content

Somebody mentioned that the flash UI woudn't work very well in the "no-mouse" iphone environment. Well, we will never know what Adobe could have done to address this as there isn't a player for the iPhone. Maybe they can't do much of anything except play ads and videos. Maybe there are iPhone specific swf(? not sure of the file) files: the iphone has a big enough market share to warrant it (Adobe seems to think so).

I agree with couch_surfer in that the reason that there is no flash is because Apple can't control (I mean collect revenue) from apps that aren't in the app store.

Nope. But I have had my 3G since they came out and the availability wasn't as great at that time.

So I'll ask again. How can you say your phone is better than anything? You've never tried anything else. Period. You have no frame of reference.

It's a phone, so ease of use is the most important aspect for me, and I would bet that is the case for the majority of other users. I have great technical skills but if the phone does most of what I want out of the box, I don't mind., plus I could jailbreak it if I really wanted to tinker. It's super easy to do. So what features am I missing out on.

Again, as I said, your criteria are different than mine, I'm not attacking your choice. What I'm saying is that what works for you, and what features you use on your iPhone, aren't necessarily the features that I'm looking for when I'm choosing which hand set to purchase.

:lol: Why would I have to justify my phone? I am sure that I would enjoy another phone too, the Droid looks pretty cool, but my point was just that Apple is always winning because they figure out what we want before anyone else.

I don't know why you'd have to justify your purchase, you're the one constantly replying to my post, trying to convince me that, in fact, your phone is the best. I'm not pushing any agenda, or trying to convince you that my choice of phone is better than yours, all I've said is that my criteria for the value of a phone is different than yours, and based on that criteria, I think that there is better phones on the market.

If you don't think that they re-invented the game then why did all the other makers scramble to get a similar concept to the market? Look at the original storm. It was a piece of crap put out there so RIM could be in the game and every since has come with a similar interface. Apple had the jump on everyone because making things more user friendly has been their MO since the Mac came with a mouse, so to me it is not surprising that they took over MP3 players with the iPod and then did the same with phones. The iPad looks to be doing it again for tablets.

Again, as I said before, Apple was first to market. They're definitely innovators. But whether of not something is a 'game changer' is a matter of opinion. Did Apple invent the touchscreen. No. Did they invent the cell phone? No. What they did was combine them and market them. They didn't change the cellphone game, they refined it then created a demand for their product. But again, the iPhone's success is a matter of opinion, not fact. Was it successful because of the App store? Marketing? Branding? The interface? or all of the above?

It's a matter of opinion. Straight up. I accept yours, why is it so impossible for you to accept mine?

…

Again, as I said before, Apple was first to market. They're definitely innovators. But whether of not something is a 'game changer' is a matter of opinion. Did Apple invent the touchscreen. No. Did they invent the cell phone? No. What they did was combine them and market them. They didn't change the cellphone game, they refined it then created a demand for their product. But again, the iPhone's success is a matter of opinion, not fact. Was it successful because of the App store? Marketing? Branding? The interface? or all of the above?

It's a matter of opinion. Straight up. I accept yours, why is it so impossible for you to accept mine?

Just wanted to add my perceptions of the whole innovator/first to market point. I can't remember the exact date, but was probably in early 2006, I had bought a smart phone. It had wi-fi, gps, slide out keyboard, touch screen, blue-tooth, ran windows mobile 5. It even came pre-loaded with a skype client. It wasn't a great phone, but it was pretty awesome at keeping me on track and organized. When I pulled it out to put in an appointment or something like that, I was called a geek (guilty!).

Apple came out with the iPhone and made it cool to have a smartphone. Regardless of my opinion on Apple, most think it is a cool and hip brand, and if they make a smartphone, then a smartphone must be cool and hip and they want one.

You can have whatever opinion you want, but it all started with this.

How long did it take for Apple to enable video capture on it's phones? A feature that has been practically standard on handsets for almost a decade.

Apples dominance (arguable) in the smartphone market is solely based on the success of the App Store. Straight up. They were first to market and created a seamless system for purchasing applications. This attracted developers, who because they could actually receive compensation for their work, developed more applications, which in turn, attracted more customers. Apple has always had nice looking hardware, but in terms of actual hardware, has been a step behind, IMO, until the 4.

Where you are basically saying that all the iPhone's success comes from the App store… straight up. And that their hardware is sub standard but looks good so people buy it. I disagree with this opinion.

It's a matter of opinion. Straight up. I accept yours, why is it so impossible for you to accept mine

?

I accept it, I just believe it is incorrect. And for the record, I don't really think you accept mine either.

i phone rules ok.

When is this going to be available in canada?

Somebody mentioned that the flash UI woudn't work very well in the "no-mouse" iphone environment. Well, we will never know what Adobe could have done to address this as there isn't a player for the iPhone. Maybe they can't do much of anything except play ads and videos. Maybe there are iPhone specific swf(? not sure of the file) files: the iphone has a big enough market share to warrant it (Adobe seems to think so).

I agree with couch_surfer in that the reason that there is no flash is because Apple can't control (I mean collect revenue) from apps that aren't in the app store.

It's not about Adobe, it would have to be the developers retrofitting all their code and in many cases downgrading their SWF's functionality.

Adobe might be able to address this in future releases with an export to mobile safari option, but that would only make things better developers willing to put in more effort to reach iPhone visitors. It's the HUGE library of existing SWFs that are online that are the issue.

Apple's lack of support for Flash SWFs in browser and elsewhere is valid (pending Jbazzets retort on how to deal with the UI issues I outlined above).

However, this shouldn't be confused with their lack of support for the FLV video format, which is debatable, or their outright banning of native apps compiled by Flash CS5 (not cool). There's no technical reason why these two things aren't on the iPhone (aside from shady battery usage claims).

iPost so u no iCare

Somebody mentioned that the flash UI woudn't work very well in the "no-mouse" iphone environment. Well, we will never know what Adobe could have done to address this as there isn't a player for the iPhone. Maybe they can't do much of anything except play ads and videos. Maybe there are iPhone specific swf(? not sure of the file) files: the iphone has a big enough market share to warrant it (Adobe seems to think so).

I agree with couch_surfer in that the reason that there is no flash is because Apple can't control (I mean collect revenue) from apps that aren't in the app store.

Actually, we can get a pretty damned good idea of what Adobe can do to address this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJiqLivSUHE

I accept it, I just believe it is incorrect. And for the record, I don't really think you accept mine either.

I accept your opinion, but you have no frame of reference, so I weigh it accordingly ;)
No need to take it personally. It's just a phone.

Actually, we can get a pretty damned good idea of what Adobe can do to address this:

Notice how he talks about how it's the identical experience on mobile and standard browsers while surfing those cherry-picked sites, but then encourages developers to go to the Adobe site and learn how to "build optimized content".

It's not about what can be created, it's about dealing with what's already out there. If something as simple as Javascript drop down menus can't work universally across hardware, what chance does flash have?

Notice how he talks about how it's the identical experience on mobile and standard browsers while surfing those cherry-picked sites, but then encourages developers to go to the Adobe site and learn how to "build optimized content".

It's not about what can be created, it's about dealing with what's already out there. If something as simple as Javascript drop down menus can't work universally across hardware, what chance does flash have?

Pretty sure Android 2.2 supports all Flash enabled websites, suited to mobile use or not. Of course he would showcase the ones that look particularly nice on a smartphone. Besides, I thought we were talking about what Adobe can do to address Flash content in a mobile format?

Also it's not really about what chance Flash has in terms of the future of web infrastructure. HTML5 is a great tool. It may be the way of the future. But why not have the option to have Flash enabled if you want it right now?

Right now, millions of websites use Flash so why can't we choose to see them if the technology exists to do so on our mobile device?

It's not about Adobe, it would have to be the developers retrofitting all their code and in many cases downgrading their SWF's functionality.

Adobe might be able to address this in future releases with an export to mobile safari option, but that would only make things better developers willing to put in more effort to reach iPhone visitors. It's the HUGE library of existing SWFs that are online that are the issue.

Apple's lack of support for Flash SWFs in browser and elsewhere is valid (pending Jbazzets retort on how to deal with the UI issues I outlined above).

However, this shouldn't be confused with their lack of support for the FLV video format, which is debatable, or their outright banning of native apps compiled by Flash CS5 (not cool). There's no technical reason why these two things aren't on the iPhone (aside from shady battery usage claims).

I think you misunderstand what I was trying to say (or I wasn't clear). If Adobe could do it somehow without the developers changing their code or dumbing down their apps … that is what we don't know. I would agree with you though that it's pretty hard to envision them being able to do it. They don't inspire a lot of confidence given some of their problems.

If Adobe couldn't manage existing flash, developers could maintain another release. It's a bit of a pain but that is what professional software organizations do. Just have to look at what the ROI could be to see if it is worthwhile.

I accept your opinion, but you have no frame of reference, so I weigh it accordingly ;)
No need to take it personally. It's just a phone.

No worries. I still love ya… even if your phone is a piece of shit.

I keed, I keed.