Connecticut School Shooting ?

An idiot with a grade 9 education can't whip up a batch of rifles in his trailer.

Yet time and time again through history non arms industry types have come up with effective killing devices.

Guns, unlike drugs and booze, only come from big gun manufacturers and for this reason banning certain guns will have an effect. Sure they will end up on the black market, but with an aggressive effort to get them off the streets their value will go through the roof and you won't find crazies this well armed.

In theory sounds good. But as was reported in the Toronto Star this year just about handguns. Back in the 80's hand guns where expensive on the black market and even more so through a gun store. Now days the black market is incredibly cheap so it's easier for anyone really to get a hand gun.

As was noted just this year, to much talk about gun control. We need to put the same energy and effort into other aspects.

I find the, gun control etc will never work - so why talk about it argument specious at best. - Yah the US has been talking about gun control for years. However, they never actually do anything about it on a national level.

Yep, certain limitations on gun ownership, making certain firearms illegal etc. might not work, but doing nothing hasn't been all that successful either.

Yet time and time again through history non arms industry types have come up with effective killing devices.

I have never heard of black market gun manufacturers.

In theory sounds good. But as was reported in the Toronto Star this year just about handguns. Back in the 80's hand guns where expensive on the black market and even more so through a gun store. Now days the black market is incredibly cheap so it's easier for anyone really to get a hand gun.

As was noted just this year, to much talk about gun control. We need to put the same energy and effort into other aspects.

You are just confirming what I said. Supply and demand is why hand guns are cheap. The flow of drugs and guns over the border really picked up in the 90's and as a result we have far more black market guns today. There is little Canada can do about gun proliferation. The guns come from the US.

The US needs to talk about gun control. I am not saying other aspects are not also important, like mental health issues, but this topic is so polarizing that nobody will bring it up in government where a real debate with all the facts needs to be had.

worth a read, some what related

http://www.american-buddha.com/lit.voltairebastard.6.htm

Also worth a read: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/12/16/f-rfa-macdonald-guns.html

Those drugs treat, quite effectively, depression and anxiety

Are you a psychiatrist, or big pharma salesperson?

[http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/jun/23/epidemic-mental-illness-why/?pagination=false[HTML_REMOVED]printpage;=true](http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/jun/23/epidemic-mental-illness-why/?pagination=false&printpage=true)

depression and anxiety disorders, which aren't exactly disorders that make you want to go kill someone..

One more time, it's the psychotropic drugs given to treat these "disorders" that make peeps more likely to want to kill themselves, or others.

And labeling Valium or Xanax as a drug that can induce someone to go on a shooting rampage is beyong ridiculous. .

Paragraph three………..

http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mad-in-america/201101/psychiatric-drugs-and-violence-review-fda-data-finds-link

Also…

http://www.cchrint.org/pdfs/Psychiatric_Drugs_Cause_Violence.pdf

Are you a psychiatrist, or big pharma salesperson?

[http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/jun/23/epidemic-mental-illness-why/?pagination=false[HTML_REMOVED]printpage;=true](http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/jun/23/epidemic-mental-illness-why/?pagination=false&printpage=true)

One more time, it's the psychotropic drugs given to treat these "disorders" that make peeps want to kill themselves, or others.

Oh, OK. Without treatment the people would never harm themselves. Gotcha.

There's another news story that came out today that says a guy in china stabbed 22 kids in a school recently too. Bottom line, crazies will use whatever they have at their disposal whether it's a gun, knife, car, or sledgehammer. Don't blame the tool used, blame the decisions made that led up to this tragedy. And out of respect for the victims, dont fucking make this political. Too soon man…

Difference is that with the stabbing incident there were no fatalaties reported.

You're right though that crazies will use whatever tools they have on hand - so perhaps it's a good idea to regulate what tools are available?

People who refuse to acknowledge that guns may in fact be part of the problem are themselves a part of the problem.

People who refuse to acknowledge that guns may in fact be part of the problem are themselves a part of the problem.

Absolutely, no question.

In addition I would add that people who refuse to acknowledge that psychotropic drugs may in fact be part of the problem are themselves part of the problem.

Not terribly hard to make:

And for the record, I'm for doing what it takes to arrive at a healthy society that has an absolute bare minimum of violence(ideally none at all).

Stop the petty arguing and do something to help these families. Takes 5 minutes and then you can go back to the e-thug stuff.

https://newtown.uwwesternct.org/

Wish I could afford more this time of year, but let's get a few more of you doing the same:

Observations from a Canadian teacher.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/commentary/why-schools-are-a-target-of-choice/article6441362/

For those that say gun rights are a part of the constitution, and can not be modified, a bit of a history lesson.

After the revolutionary war was won, the US originally passed the articles of confederation to structure our new country. It didn't work. When the forefathers got back at the table to come up with a better structure for our country, they made sure that the new constitution would provide the framework of HOW the country decides policy, not WHAT specific policies are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Constitution
It is focused on HOW the country is run. It deliniates power into the legislative, executive, and judiciary branches. It defines the relationships between states and the union. It defines the process of amending (ie, changing, modifying, adding to) the constitution. It does not get into detailed policy, AT ALL.

They were careful to create a document that is a "Living Constitution", one that can be changed by the will of the people. It has changed dramatically in the last 200 years. Off the top of my head: federal road system, public schools, income tax, women's right to vote, and so on, are all integral parts of current US gov't that are "unconstitutional" under the 1788 version.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights
The bill of rights is the first 10 amendments to the Constitution, passed 3 and half years after the Constitution. It is important to remember the historical context, and that these were a response to Colonial England.