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Climate Change - so I'm starting to panic a bit

March 25, 2020, 1:04 p.m.
Posts: 1489
Joined: April 25, 2003

Posted by: chupacabra

I will bet you a billion dollars we don't go extinct!

Look at an evolutionary tree sometime, extinction is the rule, not the exception.

March 25, 2020, 1:22 p.m.
Posts: 10705
Joined: June 29, 2006

Posted by: tashi

Posted by: chupacabra

I will bet you a billion dollars we don't go extinct!

Look at an evolutionary tree sometime, extinction is the rule, not the exception.

We will eventually, but you missed the joke.  ;)

March 25, 2020, 6:09 p.m.
Posts: 1489
Joined: April 25, 2003

Whoops, should have taken you up on the bet first so y’all knew I got it. 

Too bad there’s no way for me to collect!

March 26, 2020, 9:17 a.m.
Posts: 10705
Joined: June 29, 2006

Posted by: tashi

Whoops, should have taken you up on the bet first so y’all knew I got it. 

Too bad there’s no way for me to collect!

That's alright.  The truth is I don't have a billion dollars anyway.

I actually don't see human extinction coming any time soon though.  We may shatter the planet's eco-system but in terms of extinctions it will not be in the same league as a large meteor or volcanism and there are always animals that survive.  As far as megafauna go I would place bets on the most adaptable species to ever exist to pull through.  It will be ugly and the vast majority will die if the worst comes to pass, but pockets will survive it.  It will definitely be easier here than Mars.

April 24, 2020, 5:05 p.m.
Posts: 17873
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zk11vI-7czE

Removed from the debate is the only thing that MIGHT save us: getting a grip on our out-of-control human presence and consumption. Why is this not THE issue? Because that would be bad for profits, bad for business. Have we environmentalists fallen for illusions, “green” illusions, that are anything but green, because we’re scared that this is the end—and we’ve pinned all our hopes on biomass, wind turbines, and electric cars?

No amount of batteries are going to save us, warns director Jeff Gibbs (lifelong environmentalist and co-producer of “Fahrenheit 9/11” and “Bowling for Columbine"). This urgent, must-see movie, a full-frontal assault on our sacred cows, is guaranteed to generate anger, debate, and, hopefully, a willingness to see our survival in a new way—before it’s too late.


 Last edited by: heckler on April 24, 2020, 5:09 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
April 24, 2020, 6:25 p.m.
Posts: 2328
Joined: May 23, 2006

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/apr/23/insect-numbers-down-25-since-1990-global-study-finds

April 24, 2020, 10:35 p.m.
Posts: 1195
Joined: Nov. 8, 2003

Posted by: chupacabra

Posted by: tashi

Whoops, should have taken you up on the bet first so y’all knew I got it. 

Too bad there’s no way for me to collect!

That's alright.  The truth is I don't have a billion dollars anyway.

I actually don't see human extinction coming any time soon though.  We may shatter the planet's eco-system but in terms of extinctions it will not be in the same league as a large meteor or volcanism and there are always animals that survive.  As far as megafauna go I would place bets on the most adaptable species to ever exist to pull through.  It will be ugly and the vast majority will die if the worst comes to pass, but pockets will survive it.  It will definitely be easier here than Mars.

Had a salt water fish tank when I was a kid that I neglected, water turned brown and all the fish died except one miserable zombie fish that persisted alone in the murk for ages.

April 25, 2020, 12:40 a.m.
Posts: 12804
Joined: Nov. 24, 2002

Posted by: Hepcat

Posted by: chupacabra

Posted by: tashi

Whoops, should have taken you up on the bet first so y’all knew I got it. 

Too bad there’s no way for me to collect!

That's alright.  The truth is I don't have a billion dollars anyway.

I actually don't see human extinction coming any time soon though.  We may shatter the planet's eco-system but in terms of extinctions it will not be in the same league as a large meteor or volcanism and there are always animals that survive.  As far as megafauna go I would place bets on the most adaptable species to ever exist to pull through.  It will be ugly and the vast majority will die if the worst comes to pass, but pockets will survive it.  It will definitely be easier here than Mars.

Had a salt water fish tank when I was a kid that I neglected, water turned brown and all the fish died except one miserable zombie fish that persisted alone in the murk for ages.

I used to have rats when I was a teen. My parents were ok with that. Smart little critters, made me read up on them. When it comes to survival of the pack that is a smart lifeform....not necessarily ethically just....still smart. Life/evolution/adaptation finds a way. Either adapt or leave the party.

April 25, 2020, 8:31 a.m.
Posts: 822
Joined: Nov. 6, 2006

Posted by: heckler

Removed from the debate is the only thing that MIGHT save us: getting a grip on our out-of-control human presence and consumption. Why is this not THE issue? Because that would be bad for profits, bad for business. Have we environmentalists fallen for illusions, “green” illusions, that are anything but green, because we’re scared that this is the end—and we’ve pinned all our hopes on biomass, wind turbines, and electric cars?

No amount of batteries are going to save us, warns director Jeff Gibbs (lifelong environmentalist and co-producer of “Fahrenheit 9/11” and “Bowling for Columbine"). This urgent, must-see movie, a full-frontal assault on our sacred cows, is guaranteed to generate anger, debate, and, hopefully, a willingness to see our survival in a new way—before it’s too late.

If that doesn’t tear your heart out, nothing will. After watching that I feel shame, anger and fear all at the same time. I  guess Trumpers are not the only ones who are easIly conned.


 Last edited by: FLATCH on April 25, 2020, 8:35 a.m., edited 1 time in total.
April 27, 2020, 10:02 a.m.
Posts: 10705
Joined: June 29, 2006

Posted by: heckler

Removed from the debate is the only thing that MIGHT save us: getting a grip on our out-of-control human presence and consumption. Why is this not THE issue? Because that would be bad for profits, bad for business. Have we environmentalists fallen for illusions, “green” illusions, that are anything but green, because we’re scared that this is the end—and we’ve pinned all our hopes on biomass, wind turbines, and electric cars?

No amount of batteries are going to save us, warns director Jeff Gibbs (lifelong environmentalist and co-producer of “Fahrenheit 9/11” and “Bowling for Columbine"). This urgent, must-see movie, a full-frontal assault on our sacred cows, is guaranteed to generate anger, debate, and, hopefully, a willingness to see our survival in a new way—before it’s too late.

Thanks Heckler.  I saw Michael talking about this movie and never thought to look on Youtube for it.

I think THE issue really ought to be how do we adapt to the new climate.  Even the wealthiest of cities are not truly planning for what is to come.  We should be looking at re-locating entire populations of people and what that means for our economy.  Every city and town should have to go through an exercise to calculate the cost to save themselves as sea levels rise, or water becomes scarce.  Are they worth saving?   We should be planning to feed people in this new reality by changing our farming practices.  Reducing consumption would have to be part of that planning as well, but I think people would be much more compliant if they are giving the hard facts on what to plan for.

If this virus has taught us anything it is that we are not prepared for any type of global curveball.  Climate change is a fastball coming for our heads.

April 30, 2020, 9:27 p.m.
Posts: 519
Joined: Nov. 23, 2002

A good thing that has come to light over the pandemic is that even with the significant drop in CO2 emissions from the reduction in transportation it’s still not nearly enough to get us on the road to where we need to be. Only 20% of emissions are transportation related, so things like home heating and electricity generation also have to be targeted. Of course don’t also forget your beef production and like heckler says our overall excess consumption of basically everything.  People want it all and cheap cheap cheap so we can have it all and the newest version every year.

May 1, 2020, 8:06 a.m.
Posts: 16296
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

I've generally been on board material backed by Moore, but this Planet of the Humans is total shite.

.

"Planet of the humans: A reheated mess of lazy, old myths"

https://ketanjoshi.co/2020/04/24/planet-of-the-humans-a-reheated-mess-of-lazy-old-myths/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/planet-humans-michael-moore-economics-1.5549693


 Last edited by: KenN on May 1, 2020, 8:15 a.m., edited 2 times in total.
May 1, 2020, 8:44 a.m.
Posts: 10705
Joined: June 29, 2006

Posted by: KenN

I've generally been on board material backed by Moore, but this Planet of the Humans is total shite.

.

"Planet of the humans: A reheated mess of lazy, old myths"

https://ketanjoshi.co/2020/04/24/planet-of-the-humans-a-reheated-mess-of-lazy-old-myths/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/planet-humans-michael-moore-economics-1.5549693

I haven't seen it yet, but this is what I have been reading as well.  It sounds like they tried too hard to dismiss technical advances that can help us in order to make the claim that we just need to consume less and used outdated data to do so.  Was that your take?  It's a shame that MM would fall for a false dichotomy.

The one review I read did say that the movie highlighted the overlooked issue of burning biomass for heat and how huge of a contributor that is, but again, using tech to provide clean electricity is the answer.  You can't ask people to consume less heat in their homes.

May 1, 2020, 8:55 a.m.
Posts: 10705
Joined: June 29, 2006

Posted by: syncro

A good thing that has come to light over the pandemic is that even with the significant drop in CO2 emissions from the reduction in transportation it’s still not nearly enough to get us on the road to where we need to be. Only 20% of emissions are transportation related, so things like home heating and electricity generation also have to be targeted. Of course don’t also forget your beef production and like heckler says our overall excess consumption of basically everything.  People want it all and cheap cheap cheap so we can have it all and the newest version every year.

I am eating a lot less meat and it is organic when I do.  I don't like it (the less part, not the organic), but I am doing it.  This is where capitalism needs to be rebooted and externalities added to the costs.   If the meat industry had to pay for all the harm they cause, organic meat would be cheaper than factory meat.

May 1, 2020, 10:54 p.m.
Posts: 17873
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

Hey man, I just quoted the youtube intro. No opinion stated.  

I only over consume on bikes (N+1) and beers.  Still running a PS3 and a 14 year old Pontiac as our ‘newer’ model car.   

I would love it if the numbers of bikes riding the LSCR translates into an increase in two wheeled commuter traffic, but Im not holding my breath.  I still see the bikes getting loaded into cars at the end of the bike ride.

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