Canada, the Bad Neighbor

Posted by: syncro

Sure, clear cuts continue, but the level of damage done by logging is not nearly the same as back in the 50's when it was pretty much a free for all.

Nope. Studies done during the Lib. reign of error showed same bad practices occuring. Have no idea what's changed/happening under Horgans watch.

Oh looky....

https://thenarwhal.ca/25-years-after-clayoquot-sound-blockades-the-war-in-the-woods-never-ended-and-its-heating-back-up/

Still fucked, eh? More....

IF YOU GO INTO THE WOODS TODAY you’re in for no surprises. Nothing has changed since the BC Liberals left in their wake vast clearcuts, gutted rural communities, and species on the edge of extinction in our deregulated, corporate-controlled public forests. It doesn’t matter who you talk to: unions, First Nations, rural politicians, enviros or insider scientists, the prognosis is that nothing has changed with the rate of mowing down what’s left of our ancient forests since the NDP picked up the reigns in May 2017.

The Chief Forester, Diane Nicholls, is the same; the latest unsustainable Annual Allowable Cut (AAC) that she is setting remains the same. The empty Ministry of Forests offices and lack of anybody on the ground monitoring the forests is the same. The legislation (or lack thereof) is the same. The silent renewal of Tree Farm Licences over vast areas of public forest with no public consultation is the same. The number of raw logs leaving our shores is the same......

https://www.ancientforestalliance.org/nothing-has-changed-in-bc-forestry-practices-under-the-ndp-government/

Posted by: tungsten

Posted by: syncro

Sure, clear cuts continue, but the level of damage done by logging is not nearly the same as back in the 50's when it was pretty much a free for all. 

Nope. Studies done during the Lib. reign of error showed same bad practices occuring. Have no idea what's changed/happening under Horgans watch.

There will probably always be some bad practices happening, the question is whether it's at the same level as it was in the 50's. Think govt's back then would have entertained the idea of creating the Carmanah Walbran or the Stein Valley? Hell it wouldn't have even been a consideration for most people back then.

https://canadaslogpeople.com/about/bc-forest-facts

Posted by: syncro

There will probably always be some bad practices happening, the question is whether it's at the same level as it was in the 50's. Think govt's back then would have entertained the idea of creating the Carmanah Walbran or the Stein Valley? 

https://canadaslogpeople.com/about/bc-forest-facts

lol..you cite peeps building profit from the resource?

As noted above, "bad practices happening" the same. Or worse if you think about the relative size of forests remaining. 

Carmanah/Stein a pittance compared to area being devastated.

Posted by: tungsten...

you just don't want to even consider the other side of the equation do you? you're just as bad as the average trump supporter.

Last year, I became a Canadian citizen. I took pride in participating in the federal election as a first-time voter. I believe in democratic process.

Last week I was ashamed of being a Canadian. The government’s silence in the face of U.S. assassination of a top Iranian military leader in Iraq is shameful. It signals a complicit agreement with a horrendous, dangerous and offensive action. 

https://thetyee.ca/Opinion/2020/01/10/Iranians-learned-fear-US-wrath-Canada-complicity/

A different topic that popped up on my IG account and an honest, not provocatively meant, question:

If you know or follow the news on that issue, what is your take on the Wet'suwet'en issue?

I feel like Tungsten and Syncro have 2 different definitions of "bad practices".  Cutting old growth is a bad practice IMO, but as a guy that grew up in a logging town, I think I know what Syncro is talking about.  HOW we log has changed dramatically over the decades from how we decommission roads to replanting.  It used to be that to change the oil in a skidder you just drained it on the spot and from my perspective as a mountain biker the individual clear-cuts are much smaller than they used to be.   

And Tungsten, you can't criticize biased sources when you are posting articles with tag lines like "De-colonizing forestry in BC".  I am surprised they didn't go after the patriarchy too.  If you think the data is incorrect, say so.

Posted by: chupacabra

I feel like Tungsten and Syncro have 2 different definitions of "bad practices".  Cutting old growth is a bad practice IMO, but as a guy that grew up in a logging town, I think I know what Syncro is talking about.  HOW we log has changed dramatically over the decades from how we decommission roads to replanting.  It used to be that to change the oil in a skidder you just drained it on the spot and from my perspective as a mountain biker the individual clear-cuts are much smaller than they used to be.   

And Tungsten, you can't criticize biased sources when you are posting articles with tag lines like "De-colonizing forestry in BC".  I am surprised they didn't go after the patriarchy too.  If you think the data is incorrect, say so.

I probably don't have that big a different definition of bad practices as Tungsten, but I think  he's being willfully ignorant if he's going to say that things haven't changed since the 50's. That was my disagreement.

There is no doubt still a lot to dislike about current forestry practices. I get how the current government is in a bind with the downturn in the forestry industry, but they have to start making some progress away from some of the mess created by the previous BC Liberal govt. The NDP have been in power long enough now that they should be stating to make some headway in this area and it's one of the factors I will use when it comes time to hold them accountable for how the province has been run. WRT old growth, I don't know if it has to stop altogether, but the rate of cut has to seriously decline and the stumpage rate for those logs has to seriously increase. I think if done right, the two could potentially offset each other. If the consumer wants that type of wood, then let them pay for it. The one danger there of course is that illegal logging will probably increase significantly if there's potentially far more money to be made, but the govt can put in very harsh fines and combat it via tracking production. If the allowable cut is drastically reduced it should be relatively easy to track where illegal wood is coming from.

Re the source it was a convenient compilation of info that I was looking for and is verifiable. When it comes to sourcing raw numbers I care less about whether a source may be biased and more about the accuracy of the data itself.

Agreed.  I would think we could avoid old growth for the most part.  From what I can tell we are still not making the most of the wood and shipping off raw logs.  I remember talking about this in high school, so I guess that hasn't changed (I am old so that means the late 80's).  This province definitely could do better.

you two are cute the way you agree with each other all the time. it must make tungstain jelly

Posted by: chupacabro

tungstain jelly

I do have PPD.

Posted by: chupacabro

you two are cute the way you agree with each other all the time. it must make tungstain jelly

You need a beard like Trustin Judeau.

i'd show you a picture of my beard but would probably get banned for posting teh pronz

Posted by: chupacabra

I the individual clear-cuts are much smaller than they used to be.   

bigger is the new smaller

14-1-20

Dear tungsten,

I can’t believe this number. Logging companies are cutting down the last of BC’s old growth trees at a rate of 34 soccer fields per day. [1]

These ancient forests are some of the last habitat for endangered species, including owls, hawks, and caribou. They’re excellent carbon sinks, and they help defend against wildfires. Chopping them down is unthinkable -- and heartbreaking. [2]

But right now we have an opportunity to put a stop to it: an independent panel convened to review how BC manages old growth is accepting comments from the public by January 31st.

A flood of messages from BC voters could push the panel to recommend protecting ancient forests and force the government to put an end to old-growth logging.

But we don’t have much time. Will you send in your message now with our easy action tool? It only takes a minute.

There are plenty of reasons why old-growth logging doesn’t make sense for BC. 

It could force endangered species like the spotted owl, northern goshawk and mountain caribou to extinction. These species are teetering on the edge of extinction, and old-growth forests are sometimes the only place they can live. [3]

It’s bad for the climate. Clearcutting old growth creates dead zones that emit more greenhouse gases than fossil fuels. In a climate emergency, destroying an excellent carbon sink and adding even more emissions just doesn’t make sense. [4,5]

It’s not necessary -- we can create sustainable forestry jobs instead. If BC phased out raw log exports, and improved our forest management practices we could create even more jobs without cutting another ancient tree. [6]

If we don’t act fast, we could lose our last ancient forests. The first step to stopping old-growth logging is to flood the review panel with comments before the Jan. 31st deadline.

Send a message to the BC government today to stop clearcutting invaluable old growth.

Our old-growth forests literally can’t wait another day -- they’re being destroyed wholesale as we speak. 

The Province’s Old Growth Strategic Review is an extremely rare opportunity for us to speak up -- and our action tool makes it easy for you to send a clear message with just a few clicks. Click here to send your message to the BC Government now.

https://act.leadnow.ca/send-a-message-to-stop-old-growth-logging/

We’re in this together,

Cherry & Jolan on behalf of Leadnow

Sources

[1] https://sierraclub.bc.ca/rainforestisland/

[2-3]https://www.wildernesscommittee.org/sites/default/files/2019-05/2019_logging-old-growth_paper.pdf

[4] https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-s-clear-cut-forests-are-dead-zones-emitting-more-greenhouse-gases-than-they-absorb-new-report-finds-1.5398660

[5] https://www.nationalobserver.com/2019/09/20/opinion/debunking-old-growth-forest-claims-british-columbia

[6] https://sierraclub.bc.ca/wp-content/uploads/Save-Old-Growth-Infosheet-web.pdf