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bitcoin

Jan. 2, 2018, 5:42 p.m.
Posts: 11900
Joined: June 4, 2008

It’s cool stuff. Google Ars Technica bitcoin.  They recently did a couple of intro articles.

We are not in a bubble. When an iced tea company adds block chain to their name and their stock triples that’s just good management and fundamentals.  I got some great tips from my barber too.

Situation normal.

Jan. 2, 2018, 7:31 p.m.
Posts: 891
Joined: Nov. 18, 2015

Bubble or not, I have not been able to determine its fundamental value. Its all greater fool theory!

I don't think that itll crash but if it were to, I wouldn't be able to say why I bought it other than I hoped someone else would pay me more for it!

Jan. 2, 2018, 8:42 p.m.
Posts: 33648
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Posted by: JBV

so what the hell does that mean? what riddles? where do they come from? who vets them?

It's about trying to crack public key cryptography and hashing algorithms.  This has to be done quickly, which it can't.  So hacking is really hard.

The bank ledger is spread out over a lot of computers.  They all have to agree on transactions.  This is the vetting.

The computing power required is growing really fast, as is the amount of energy to provide that computing power.  Don't know how much you can make for aiding in transactions.

Jan. 2, 2018, 8:57 p.m.
Posts: 11900
Joined: June 4, 2008

It's a bubble for now, no question.  That said, markets can stay irrational longer than you can stay solvent.  If you like to gamble, do it.. just don't be surprised if you get caught with your pants down.

Blockchain tech is for real.  It is awesome stuff.  Ethereum is meta on top of that.  ICO's are pretty fucking cool.

It's not about trying to crack public key cryptography and hashing algorithms. 

The biggest "problem" with Bitcoin is who you ask.  Because the blockchain is NOT spread out over a lot of computers, there are downsides. 

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/how-bitcoin-works/

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/bitcoins-insane-energy-consumption-explained/

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/bitcoin-a-beginners-guide/

Jan. 3, 2018, 10:13 a.m.
Posts: 11497
Joined: June 29, 2006

It is hard to define it's value since it derives its value from people believing that it has value, but one thing I know for sure it that it's current value is based on speculation, not from people using it as currency, so I can't see it not correcting back down around $1000.  I can't see it being stable until something big happens like a major vendor such as Amazon starts accepting it.  Having said that, who would start accepting it now when it is overinflated and maybe even popping a little bit.  All crypto-currencies will be wild unpredictable rides unless they start getting mass adoption in the real world IMO.

Jan. 3, 2018, 12:10 p.m.
Posts: 18068
Joined: Oct. 28, 2003

When my 83 year old aunt asks me to fix her record player and then proceeds to ask if Im invested in Bitcoin, I know I'm out.

Jan. 3, 2018, 1:59 p.m.
Posts: 1659
Joined: Aug. 6, 2009

At Bitcoin's current value, and hype level, it is completely impractical as a day-to-day currency. Every transaction incurs about $20 worth of fees, and takes the better part of an hour to be completed.  There are dozens of "alt-coins" available that have lower fees and faster transaction times, but everyone is buying those up hoping they become the next big thing.  e.g. Ripple has trippled in value in the last month or so.

The underlying Blockchain technology is the real story in all of this.

Jan. 3, 2018, 2:04 p.m.
Posts: 11497
Joined: June 29, 2006

Posted by: PaulB

At Bitcoin's current value, and hype level, it is completely impractical as a day-to-day currency. Every transaction incurs about $20 worth of fees, and takes the better part of an hour to be completed.  There are dozens of "alt-coins" available that have lower fees and faster transaction times, but everyone is buying those up hoping they become the next big thing.  e.g. Ripple has trippled in value in the last month or so.

The underlying Blockchain technology is the real story in all of this.

Why do the transactions cost 20$?  I thought they were free.  Or is that just a typical fee for those brave few that accept it as payment?

Jan. 3, 2018, 2:33 p.m.
Posts: 11900
Joined: June 4, 2008

Posted by: chupacabra

Posted by: PaulB

At Bitcoin's current value, and hype level, it is completely impractical as a day-to-day currency. Every transaction incurs about $20 worth of fees, and takes the better part of an hour to be completed.  There are dozens of "alt-coins" available that have lower fees and faster transaction times, but everyone is buying those up hoping they become the next big thing.  e.g. Ripple has trippled in value in the last month or so.

The underlying Blockchain technology is the real story in all of this.

Why do the transactions cost 20$?  I thought they were free.  Or is that just a typical fee for those brave few that accept it as payment?

It’s spelled out very well in the links I posted yesterday.

Jan. 3, 2018, 4:09 p.m.
Posts: 11497
Joined: June 29, 2006

You posted three links.  That is a lot of reading.

This is one is better.

https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/12/bitcoin-fees-are-skyrocketing/

Jan. 3, 2018, 4:18 p.m.
Posts: 11900
Joined: June 4, 2008

Teach a man to fish.

Jan. 3, 2018, 4:21 p.m.
Posts: 11900
Joined: June 4, 2008

Here’s another good one.

https://blog.chain.com/a-letter-to-jamie-dimon-de89d417cb80

Wonder how this is all working out for JDim these days.

Jan. 3, 2018, 10:34 p.m.
Posts: 1659
Joined: Aug. 6, 2009

^^^ That letter is a great summary.

My brother got in when you could mine on a typical home desktop CPU and the reward was 50 BTC per block. He's pretty happy with how things have worked out.


 Last edited by: PaulB on Jan. 3, 2018, 10:35 p.m., edited 1 time in total.
Jan. 4, 2018, 1:30 p.m.
Posts: 33648
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

Posted by: ReductiMat

It's not about trying to crack public key cryptography and hashing algorithms.

I misread and thought he meant security.

The larger computational power required, for generating a block in the chain, is in generating the block's hash in a specific format.  Each block must include a nonce (very big random number), and once included, the hash must meet the format.  Currently the hashing algorithm is SHA-256.  The format is something like the first 50 bits generated must be all zeros.  So you have to add a nonce to the block, generate the hash, and check if the first 50 bits are zeros.  If not, you keep trying different nonces until the hash format is met.  This could take seconds, or months, depending on the luck of coming across the a good nonce.  There's no way to guess at a nonce that will have the best luck.  This means you either get lucky quickly, or you have a lot of computing power that can generate more hashes in a given amount of time in order to improve your odds of finding a good nonce.  Kinda like buying one lottery ticket versus a lot of lottery tickets.

Jan. 4, 2018, 3:31 p.m.
Posts: 41
Joined: Aug. 6, 2004

Remember back October 2013. We all talked about this... 

https://nsmb.com/forum/forum/nbr-not-biking-related-9/topic/bitcoin-5668/

I gave advice on what to do if interested in Crypto currency. I mined a crap load of LiteCoin sold and bought

ethereum when it arrived and have since sold all of it with recent prices going nuts. 

Shit is crazy and IMO a total scam which  I would not invest any real "work earned" cash in if you did not mine this stuff in the beginning.

Not a single company to date has found a use for the block chain in any of these Alt digital currencies.

This shit will go down in history as one of the biggest scams.

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