BC drought and water use (merged)

A 250 years dead Presbyterian Minister can.

Or has Nestle Six Sigma'd all their fucking errors away like the fucking champs they are?

Or just Google the interwebs.

" Emily Chan , CTVNews.ca
Published Friday, March 13, 2015

Despite being home to seven per cent of the world's renewable freshwater, a new report has found that thousands of Canadians were warned not to drink the water flowing from their taps this winter.

The report by the Council of Canadians found that, as of January, there were 1,838 drinking water advisories in effect across the country.

Of the advisories, 1,669 were in counties or cities for which the province is responsible. The other 139 were in First Nations communities that fall under federal jurisdiction. Of the total, more than 500 were in B.C. alone."

I think I can state unequivocally that our so called 'functioning' water treatment systems are a disaster. I won't even repeat what you posted earlier to save you the embarrassment.

In fact, lead content in water piping has been banned in Canada in the US since 1975. Leaded solder has been banned for water piping since 1986. So any house built after that has no lead. Most houses built in the last 5 or 6 years are using almost 100% PEX piping. So the FUD you're trying to spread about lead is pure bullshit.

…

City distribution systems use either plastic piping or lined pipe, so the drinking water does not contact metallics in distribution.

Your claim is false.

What turbidity issues?
…

Ha ha. Amongst the lowest taxation regimes in the developed world = "exorbitant"

A gazillion … that's a one followed by how many zeroes again?

Fucking tripe.

First, see my last post. Now, read this http://water.epa.gov/drink/info/lead/lead1.cfm . Doesn't sound like you know much about piping, older housing (most of Vancouver) or the types of construction used in most Vancouver schools. Anyone would need well advised to not let your kids drink school fountain water.

Taxes. You are comparing Canada's high taxes to where? Is that a joke?

Then turbidity? You are comparing the turbudity of municipal water to Nestle or any other bottled source? Another joke? Guess you don't mind swilling the brown muck that flows when they do hydrant testing or fire suppression system purges.

Gazillion.

"I think placing a zillion in that fuzzy space between centillion and a googolplex is a good place to start. A Bazillion can then have at least a zillion zeroes, and a Gazillion at least a bazillion zeroes."

Or something like that :D

I think I can state unequivocally that our so called 'functioning' water treatment systems are a disaster. I won't even repeat what you posted earlier to save you the embarrassment.

No embarrassment here my friend. Far from it.

The fact that you are only responding to a very small amount of the questions posed is testament to the position you hold.

You are not here to discuss but to pontificate. I hope you aren't being to paid to do so, because I'd want my money back.

Getting back to your 'reply':

Or just Google the interwebs.

" Emily Chan , CTVNews.ca
Published Friday, March 13, 2015

Despite being home to seven per cent of the world's renewable freshwater, a new report has found that thousands of Canadians were warned not to drink the water flowing from their taps this winter.

The report by the Council of Canadians found that, as of January, there were 1,838 drinking water advisories in effect across the country.

Of the advisories, 1,669 were in counties or cities for which the province is responsible. The other 139 were in First Nations communities that fall under federal jurisdiction. Of the total, more than 500 were in B.C. alone."

We had a pretty good talk on critical thinking in another thread. Your reply is sadly lacking any. I admit I can get annoyingly meta on a metric shitton of my replies, but at the very least you should just say, "What the fuck are you getting at" as opposed to this crap.

Washing your car removes the oxidants that reduce the lifespan of the paint. The paint protects the metal, which corrodes quickly once exposed. So washing your car makes it last longer. Even if you are a cheap bugger, you can understand making something last longer so you delay the price of another large purchase.

Having owned driven 2 used cars over the last 2+ decades in Vancouver, I've never had a single problem with oxidation or corrosion. Rain seems to do a good job of keeping things clean. The improved paint durability of cars, the sparing use of salt in the Lower Mainland, the move away from the use of metal in body paneling - such as the use of urethane trims probably helps. I drive reliable economy cars and drive them into the ground over many years (never had one die from body problems). If I drove higher-end autos (which I have no use for, except possibly a practical/utilitarian EV) and drove a lot in the winter/snow/ice, I'd probably be a more conscientious.

2015. Fact. " The report by the Council of Canadians found that, as of January, there were 1,838 drinking water advisories in effect across the country.

Of the advisories, 1,669 were in counties or cities for which the province is responsible. The other 139 were in First Nations communities that fall under federal jurisdiction. Of the total, more than 500 were in B.C. alone."

The new Seymour filtration plant - does it use chemicals? I thought it doesn't.

And we no longer have turbidity issues.

I'm stoked on the lawn watering ban. Will make it easier to kill it and replace it with a lovely mulch. Lawns suck.

Oh and fuck Nestle and the bullshit sweetheart deal they have.

2015. Fact. " The report by the Council of Canadians found that, as of January, there were 1,838 drinking water advisories in effect across the country.

Of the advisories, 1,669 were in counties or cities for which the province is responsible. The other 139 were in First Nations communities that fall under federal jurisdiction. Of the total, more than 500 were in B.C. alone."

You keep quoting totals. This is why I pointed you in the direction of that long dead Presbyterian Minister.

Raw numbers mean nothing without context. Context doesn't come free.

The report by the Council of Canadians found that, as of January, there were 1,838 drinking water advisories in effect across the country.

1,838 unique advisories? If not, how many unique? Out of how many? What is the sample set? What is the change over time? Are the resovoirs normalized for volume? Et cetera, et fucking cetera.

Again, Bayes is the man to give you context to all of these … facts.

2015. Fact. " The report by the Council of Canadians found that, as of January, there were 1,838 drinking water advisories in effect across the country.

Of the advisories, 1,669 were in counties or cities for which the province is responsible. The other 139 were in First Nations communities that fall under federal jurisdiction. Of the total, more than 500 were in B.C. alone."

a few minutes doing the appropriate search reveals that the majority of those advisories appear to be for rural communites on water systems such as well that are vastly different from larger municpal systems such as metro van. the difference being that these systems often have no treatment systems.

oh an on the tax note, canada's corportate tax structure, the taxes that corporations such as nestle pay, are among the lowest in the wetern world and lower than those in the US.

Raw numbers mean nothing without context.

the context is that the majority of those advisories are for rural water "systems" such as well that have no form of water treatment or disinfection.

The new Seymour filtration plant - does it use chemicals? I thought it doesn't.

And we no longer have turbidity issues.

UV, Chlorine, Lime and CO2.

http://www.metrovancouver.org/services/water/WaterPublications/SEYCapBrochureAug13.pdf

I'm over this. Rain is coming. Eventually. After all, it is Vancouver. Gotta jet .. wife just entered the room with a Perrier :)

Not quite like that but at least she brought some ice with it :)

Finally! A thread I can offer relevant input to!

I also work in the water distribution field. EOCP certified in good standing, distribution level 2 and wastewater level 2. Also a red seal sprinkler fitter of 15 years with cross connection control certification. I have spent a lot of my working life dealing with water, distribution methods and above all water safety.

Walkerton, as tragic as it was was a clear cut case of human error. Laziness to be precise. Lack of following an instituted testing program that would have easily prevented the tragedy. If any positive came from it, it has significantly enhanced policy and certification for all other municipalities and utility vendors, helping ensure a safe, consumable product reaches your tap.

I feel the Nestle deal is more of a sore point from the financial perspective. They should just be paying more money for the product they are exploiting. Bottling water from an aquifer at this point, has very little to do with impact on our treated water system and the restrictions we are dealing with due to the current drought.

Lawns, clean cars and pools are straight vanity and leisure elements that can be addressed outside of using treated water. Pools and hot tubs, even when filled from treated sources still require chemical additions to bring up to ideal standards. That being said, I believe a good idea for municipalities to start allowing grey water reclamation systems in single family homes. Vancouver Convention Center and the Olympic Village development are using with success. Why not allow on smaller scales in residential homes? Perhaps a rebate system such as BC Hydro did with home insulation to cut down on utility use. Be awfully nice to be able to use filtered laundry and bath water to keep the lawn green and car clean. I would love to see this explored for a "proactive" rather than "reactive" standpoint.

A few problems with dry line hydrants. Untreated, static water in lines will harbor all types of organic growth that will eventually plug the system. Empty dry pipes will cause delay to the end user (when time is critical) and also blasting water at high gpm and pressure through empty pipe, no matter how well the system is seismically restrained will lead to system failure eventually.

Just a few points on the subject so far.

There seems to be a few "industry" people in on this thread. Couple that with a lot of intelligent people hanging around here we could get some relevant thoughts out! Perhaps instead of mud slinging, what are other water saving ideas people have? With our population growth rate and current environmental path, its likely this will be an issue we will deal with for some time to come…..

As long as you keep it plutonic :)
Consider this: the government rakes in both exorbitant Corporate taxes (From Nestle Canada) and the employees of Nestle's water supply operations pay income tax (also quite exorbitant by world standards) and to top it all off, they mug every bottle at the cash register for HST (also exorbitant).

I'll pick on this as a lot of people perceive your view as well but don't understand reality. That's because, well, it's hard to understand reality.

So what is your definition of Exorbitant? Simply comparing CDN taxes to 'world standards' just makes you look ignorant. So let me help. :)

A quick google finds us "supporting" your statement.

[
Canada 26.5
US 40

Americas average 27.14
Asia average 21.91
Europe average 20.24
Oceania average 27
North America average 33.25
Latin America average 26.61
EU average 22.15
OECD average 24.77
Global average 23.68
](http://www.kpmg.com/global/en/services/tax/tax-tools-and-resources/pages/corporate-tax-rates-table.aspx)

Getting into the hard to understand reality of your perception:

Greece's rate is 26… should they not be doing better than the US at 40%? Why are they such a basket case?

What's important here, and why your quoted statement is really foolish, is the not the number but the tax 'loopholes' and the gov't ability to collect the tax and punish evaders. Moreover, it's also the tax structure that goes into the marginal rate that they are being charged.

For example the corporate tax structure is roughly this in Canada:

... A 2015 representative tax rate for a CCPC on its first CAD$500,000 of active business income is 15.5% (an 11% federal tax component and a 4.5% provincial tax component). Depending on the province, the 2014 combined active business income tax rate ranges from 11% to 19%.

And in the US:

The marginal federal corporate income tax rate on the highest income bracket of corporations (currently above USD 18,333,333) is 35%. State and local governments may also impose income taxes ranging from 0% to 12%, the top marginal rates averaging approximately 7.5%.

When you wash this all off, the difference is not big as the numbers suggest (a few % points) and is really complex and situational. Comparing things to a 'global standard' as the basis of argument makes you look like a rambling idiot that can't be taken seriously.

To wrap a pretty bow on this re: Nestle

I couldn't find what Nestlé pays in Canadian tax, but globally they made a pre-tax profit ~19 billion CAD, and paid ~720 million CAD in tax for 2014. … which is a marginal tax rate of about 3.75%. In lieu of that figure it's a safe guess that they PAID close to 3.75% tax in Canada as well, which is hardly exorbitant… and is actually closer to the exact opposite of exorbitant.

So when Bullshit like them paying $2.25 CAD for every 1 Million litres of water is made public again, during a drought, you can hopefully see why very few people agree with your simple opinions. These people aren't socialist, but they understand the reality of things.

And when you compare personal income tax rates to Nestlé's 3.75%… your views are even more impossible to take seriously.