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"Assault weapon" ban 2.0

Jan. 27, 2013, 1:17 p.m.
Posts: 3009
Joined: May 16, 2004

I guess what frustrates me, from the outside, is that all other countries that are in the peer group of the U.S. have good gun control laws of varying degrees and far less gun violence. Why is it so hard to consider that properly implemented gun control, with the general population being restricted in their ownership of some weapons by national law, might be the precursor to a safer society? It has worked in most other countries around the world - why compare states to states when the country can compare itself to other nations?

Maybe what's really needed is for the United States to change the political make up of the country and consolidate some power in D.C. so that national decisions can actually have a national effect.

How is it that American's are so patriotic and so afraid of the state at the same time?

Even if you look at gun control on a global scale, there is no direct correlation between gun laws and gun violence.

Its easy to say x country has less gun violence than Y country, and x country has less guns, therefor guns = bad. In reality, there is a lot of difference between the two countries, more then just gun laws so you can't just make that straight comparison. If you look at gun violence studies and various gun statistics, you'll see that there is no direct relationship between gun laws and gun violence.

If only the problem was that simple…

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
— Sigmund Freud

:canada: :usa:

Jan. 27, 2013, 3:50 p.m.
Posts: 2223
Joined: April 2, 2005

I honestly don't know. It's not such a problem with a clear cut and dry answer that everyone is trying to make it out to be. Kind of like the whole world peace thing.

Obviously they need better care and diagnostics for people with mental health issues. They also need to lessen the gap between the rich and the poor. The widening gap is only making things worse.

That's a tough question to answer, and there's probably only a handful of people that can give a proper solution. And I would bet a years salary that none of them are on this board.

how about a medical insurance for all? how about a social system that helps the poor and don't drives them into crime? how about a better education system? how about a cup of european "socialism"?

MTB-Freeride.TV

Jan. 27, 2013, 4:02 p.m.
Posts: 3009
Joined: May 16, 2004

how about a medical insurance for all? how about a social system that helps the poor and don't drives them into crime? how about a better education system? how about a cup of european "socialism"?

Those would probably all help, that's for sure. No argument from me there. Education is huge, and I think they definitely need to work on that down here.

"A fear of weapons is a sign of retarded sexual and emotional maturity."
— Sigmund Freud

:canada: :usa:

Jan. 27, 2013, 4:19 p.m.
Posts: 2285
Joined: Feb. 5, 2005

You're telling me that Butte rats aren't the smrtest people in the world?

How's the south treating you?

That's the problem with cities, they're refuges for the weak, the fish that didn't evolve.

I don't want to google this - sounds like a thing that NSMB will be better at.

Jan. 27, 2013, 4:27 p.m.
Posts: 1923
Joined: Nov. 20, 2002

Seriously?

Are you saying that because I (and thousands of other Canadians) have a rifle with a synthetic stock and a pistol grip I disregard rules and have an inferiority complex about the size of my dick?

Using that logic, would you also say that I'm gay because I've got a couple pink and purple dress shirts?

Making generalizations about people because of something they like is pretty lame.

Suppressors make a gun more deadly? How exactly? A suppressed .223 has a sound level around 135 decibels. That is still a lot of noise and nowhere near the "click" that many people assume they make.

Sorry I should have worded that better. Seeing as I go out shooting monthly in ridge/mission area I can tell you 95% of the people shooting synthetic guns have lack of caring for rules and safe shooting. Funny because they all pass the PAC test.. which after looking at it any retard that passed elementary school could pass.

Shooting down roads
shooting into rocky banks
shooting down 4x4 trails
pointing guns at moving vehicles loaded or unloaded

All of which I see on the regular to a trip up silvester. Of course there are people with hunting rifles, bolt actions etc that do this but the majority of it is the synthetic I own a gun cause I wanna shoot stuff crowd.

Say what you want, there is no reason to own a assault rifle or hand gun for any purpose.

Don't even start about home defense either.

Simply put ban handguns, assault rifles and any military style shotguns. It will never happen because we all love guns right?

What I love most is banks giving away shotguns to sign up for accounts in the US. Makes me warm inside every time.

Clunking is for retards.

Jan. 27, 2013, 4:37 p.m.
Posts: 3202
Joined: Aug. 4, 2009

Even if you look at gun control on a global scale, there is no direct correlation between gun laws and gun violence.

Its easy to say x country has less gun violence than Y country, and x country has less guns, therefor guns = bad. In reality, there is a lot of difference between the two countries, more then just gun laws so you can't just make that straight comparison. If you look at gun violence studies and various gun statistics, you'll see that there is no direct relationship between gun laws and gun violence.

If only the problem was that simple…

Alright, clearly I need to do more research before I can carry on with this argument - just know that I'm not going to drop it, and that I tend to think that if there are more restrictions on who can use guns (really, this is the crux of the debate for me), that they aren't considered something that everybody can have, then the US would see fewer gun murders and probably lower homicide rates overall.

People constantly throw around the "criminals would get guns anyway" argument, the reality is that they wouldn't in a society where gun laws were heavily enforced. Looking north to us or across the pacific to the Brits it should be relatively clear (and I suspect that you already know this) that a properly enforced set of gun regulations gives the police the tools they need to remove guns from gangs and makes it difficult for people outside of organized crime rings to get guns illegally. Of course a consistent national police force is also necessary for these things to happen, so 'Murica the great is a long way off from that kind of a solution. My last trip down there really brought me around to the inconsistencies in the law there, and the fear that seemingly good people have of police.

You're probably quite right, gun control in itself won't be an effective solution, however I think I'm also right in saying that it should at least be a part of it. I still think it's a good first step. There is no reason why pistols and semi-auto rifles need to be available to everybody, and there's also no logical reason why people should consider it a right to carry such weapons loaded in public, ready to use.

Jan. 27, 2013, 4:50 p.m.
Posts: 2223
Joined: April 2, 2005

If increased regulation works so well then why, in Mexico, where it is illegal to posses even ammunition, do they have a higher gun related homicide rate than the USA?

because they bring drugs into the USA, trade them for guns and bring them back home on their way back? there were clearly less gun related homicides there if they couldn't get them so easily in the states. and even less without the drug on wars.

MTB-Freeride.TV

Jan. 27, 2013, 4:57 p.m.
Posts: 33624
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

If increased regulation works so well then why, in Mexico, where it is illegal to posses even ammunition, do they have a higher gun related homicide rate than the USA?

If we are to assume that regulation is truly the answer to gun crimes we should not be seeing a correlation like the one described above.

There is far more to the issue of gun crime than just the tool used to commit the crime, its foolish to believe that we don't need a balanced approach that focuses on better background checks and increased focus on mental health.

Big problem in Mexico is a) huge drug trade to their neighbours to the north, and b) huge and easily accessible gun supply from the immediate neighbours to the north.

Think about the incident of the man on the Greyhound bus. He went nuts and killed one man with a knife. Maybe if everyone on the bus were armed, he might have been shot before inflicting the death wound. And maybe if the attacker had a semi with a large clip there would have been a lot more victims. The latter is the more likely scenario.

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

Jan. 27, 2013, 5:44 p.m.
Posts: 1124
Joined: July 28, 2008

Sorry I should have worded that better. Seeing as I go out shooting monthly in ridge/mission area I can tell you 95% of the people shooting synthetic guns have lack of caring for rules and safe shooting. Funny because they all pass the PAC test.. which after looking at it any retard that passed elementary school could pass.

Shooting down roads
shooting into rocky banks
shooting down 4x4 trails
pointing guns at moving vehicles loaded or unloaded

All of which I see on the regular to a trip up silvester. Of course there are people with hunting rifles, bolt actions etc that do this but the majority of it is the synthetic I own a gun cause I wanna shoot stuff crowd.

Say what you want, there is no reason to own a assault rifle or hand gun for any purpose.

Don't even start about home defense either.

Simply put ban handguns, assault rifles and any military style shotguns. It will never happen because we all love guns right?

What I love most is banks giving away shotguns to sign up for accounts in the US. Makes me warm inside every time.

Sylvester Rd is known for that. I don't think it is a good place to get an accurate view of the shooting crowd.

There are always threads popping up on CGN about the sad and unsafe state of the gravel pits there. The guys on CGN have organized quite a few cleanups for that area to try and remove garbage left by others.

I shoot at the Mission range and have yet to meet an unsafe shooter using a black rifle. I have seen a few old fudds do some stupid things but generally everybody is very safe.

Are your experiences also from a range?

>>---------> (x)
My flickr

Jan. 27, 2013, 6:10 p.m.
Posts: 3447
Joined: Dec. 2, 2002

because they bring drugs into the USA, trade them for guns and bring them back home on their way back? there were clearly less gun related homicides there if they couldn't get them so easily in the states. and even less without the drug on wars.

That just illustrates how complex the issue of gun related homicide is. It isn't the ease of gun possession that causes the crimes, its an underlying problem (war on drugs, mental health, the list goes on…). Without realizing and addressing this we are just spinning our wheels, regulation is not the cure for our problems.

Even with new laws in place which USA agency is going to have the resources to enforce them? We are already facing a looming fiscal crisis.

jake has come through for me before, I fully suspect he is just trying to find all his clothes and finishing up breakfast

Jan. 27, 2013, 7:27 p.m.
Posts: 33624
Joined: Nov. 19, 2002

That just illustrates how complex the issue of gun related homicide is. It isn't the ease of gun possession that causes the crimes, its an underlying problem (war on drugs, mental health, the list goes on…). Without realizing and addressing this we are just spinning our wheels, regulation is not the cure for our problems.

Might not be a cure for drug crime, but the unusual amount of mass shootings that occur in the US…

It is easy to dodge our responsibilities, but we cannot dodge the consequences of dodging our responsibilities.
- Josiah Stamp

Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race.
- H.G. Wells

Jan. 27, 2013, 7:34 p.m.
Posts: 3447
Joined: Dec. 2, 2002

Might not be a cure for drug crime, but the unusual amount of mass shootings that occur in the US…

Yeah you are right, but I still think increasing gun control is a simplistic approach and at best a temporary bandage. There are cultural issues that need to be addressed, people need to understand that taking the approach to solving problems with violence is not the answer. Although the citizens of the USA pride themselves on being rugged individuals I believe that a touch of collectivism would go a long way in promoting the well being of others rather than the culture of removing those whom appose your views that is currently perpetuated.

jake has come through for me before, I fully suspect he is just trying to find all his clothes and finishing up breakfast

Jan. 27, 2013, 8 p.m.
Posts: 3225
Joined: May 23, 2006

Big problem in Mexico is a) huge drug trade to their neighbours to the north, and b) huge and easily accessible gun supply from the immediate neighbours to the north.

Mexicogate

Judgments are not intended to imply that we have proof that shows something to be a fact. - ODNI

Jan. 27, 2013, 8:16 p.m.
Posts: 7566
Joined: March 7, 2004

Yeah you are right, but I still think increasing gun control is a simplistic approach and at best a temporary bandage. There are cultural issues that need to be addressed, people need to understand that taking the approach to solving problems with violence is not the answer. Although the citizens of the USA pride themselves on being rugged individuals I believe that a touch of collectivism would go a long way in promoting the well being of others rather than the culture of removing those whom appose your views that is currently perpetuated.

Why does it have to be one or the other? Why not both? Saying "gun control alone won't solve the problem" doesn't mean "throw out any idea of gun control"

Jan. 27, 2013, 8:38 p.m.
Posts: 4905
Joined: Aug. 7, 2007

Say what you want, there is no reason to own a assault rifle or hand gun for any purpose.

Simply put ban handguns, assault rifles and any military style shotguns. It will never happen because we all love guns right?

there's no reason to own 1000 hp cars, or sport bikes, hell even a 400hp car. we only really need 200hp for cars, and 300 for trucks.

why dont we ban those too?
you're gun owner, you should know "assault rifles" dont mean jack shit.

my sks has more fire power than ar15.

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