An Observation

Here all night guys. Been on many construction sites going through these conversations, so, nothing new, just out numbered

on tv right now they are telling me that we were planted here by aliens

Yea no you said that, I mean, why are they going extinct ? Does maybe our impact as humans have anything to do with it? Fall of man, humans have destroyed this earth… fact

I just got the feeling you thought it was God's decision like ending the Dinosaurs

I just got the feeling you thought it was God's decision like ending the Dinosaurs

Fall of man, humans have destroyed this earth… fact

p.s. These are pretty detailed questions.. I'll ask the big guy up stairs and get back to you, but he might not give me an answer for a good 20 years or so

So now that we have torn the Christians a new one,who has the balls to go after,oh let's say, Native Americans and their silly spirits,reincarnation and fairy tales about ravens,the moon and pheonixes and such?

I elect XXXer

actualy if you had been paying attention for the last 10 years you would know I'm probably THE most pro 1st nations member on NSMB and so I have been happy to see the 1st nations take back their culture after the gov tried to take the indian out of the indian in the church run residential schools which were generaly acknowledged to have fucked up a lot of people [HTML_REMOVED] families

well the difference with science is it is peer reviewed, as I recall KenN explaining in a post a long time ago. Some one can't just make up or say something without their thesis being carefully examined by others.

Yes, some people rebuttal by saying it is other scientist that peer review which is true, but you can't possible expect a janitor to comprehend the topics in said thesis.

What I like is the scientific approach and that is to view all beliefs as a model that can be used to predict outcomes. Science, religion and anything else you want to believe is just a model. Science is being used quite well at predicting outcomes but it still is evolving and changing in order to produce a more accurate model (think the step from newtonian physics to quantum physics). Religions seem to be a model that can predict some things correctly but is less accurate at predictions than science. There was a time when the religious model was the best model but there were to many inconsistencies. There may very well be a higher being in the scientific model as well that caused the big bang (highly doubtful at this point but not disproved)

Really, whatever floats your boat, but I am sure glad technological advances and such are being done with the scientific model rather than the religious one.

The Vatican should build their own version of the LHC and find their own "God particle".

actualy if you had been paying attention for the last 10 years you would know I'm probably THE most pro 1st nations member on NSMB and so I have been happy to see the 1st nations take back their culture after the gov tried to take the indian out of the indian in the church run residential schools which were generaly acknowledged to have fucked up a lot of people [HTML_REMOVED] families

Yeah, I know all of that, but why linit yourself to bashing just one faith?

Rational thinking eh? I haven't ran into to many nut jobs at my church..

Of course I was 'dragged' to church as a kid, my dad was, my grandpa was, sang the hymns, and we've all lived our lives based on this crazy book.

The one thing 'bout arguing religion, is when it comes down to it, for any religion, no one is able to answer the question.. "Prove it!".. (that's not a question, but you get it..) But at the same time, you wouldn't be able to un prove anything I say either. Religion is just that for me. Faith. Without Faith there's no religion. I can pray and know he's listening, but I wont be recording the conversation for you to hear after. ( we pray to ourselves, and anyone that is praying out loud to public for attention or posting up on street corners with signs 'bout Jesus or faith is missing something, don't let those bad apples ruin it for the bunch, but they will be posted in the news paper for it).. Christianity for me will never be about blasting it in your face, I will defend my beliefs, like I am now, but that's it.

As far as interpreting the bible, even Ministers or preachers will have discussions on what certain parts of the bible mean, so there is a grey area. But there's still a concrete message that Christians share together and that's what's important. Certain stories in the bible we'll never have an exact explanation, or a definite %100 understanding of, but that doesn't mean we write the book off, and definitely don't use it as a crutch. We're walking just fine, and if you want to walk a different path then so be it. We're not forcing nothing, but obviously our church doors are always open, and we'll have juice and nuts for snack after the service

I appreciate your response…and i will choose to respect your belief … i assume that you are a good person and that is what is most important. How you get to your values is of your own doing. I can't argue christianity with someone of your faith - i will never believe and you will never cease to believe. Gotta leave it at that.

So…are you for or against women being topless while shopping on Nelson's Main Street?

I've been here since september and have yet to see any topless ladies in public.

I appreciate your response…and i will choose to respect your belief … i assume that you are a good person and that is what is most important. How you get to your values is of your own doing. I can't argue christianity with someone of your faith - i will never believe and you will never cease to believe. Gotta leave it at that.

+1. What matters is that someone is a good person and treats themselves and others with respect. I actually think this discussion has been pretty reasonable and respectful (troll posts aside) of the faithful as represented by DubProof and that he's done a good job of defending his faith without resorting to the types of judgemental "you're all going to burn in hell" responses that I've run into when questioning the faithful in the past. I have the feeling that despite our differences in how we understand the big questions, we'd get along just fine. I can't say the same for many other believers that I've met over the years.

Personally, I have some training in the scientific method (B.Sc., the high school diploma of the '90s) and am convinced that it is the best way we have so far of understanding the world around us. I've searched for meaning in human existence, and basically came to the conclusion that existence is basically infinite and therefore we, as humans are irrelevant, except to the extent that which we experience the world around us. Since the things that I can perceive (via. observation and study of science) are so fascinating and beautiful I don't really have much interest in truths that are presented to me with the argument that "I (or god) said so therefore it's true". I do have faith (!) however that those using the scientific method to pursue the big questions (creation of the universe, the nature of matter, our history on the plantet, the origins of life etc.) are getting a good understanding of reality and truth, and unfortunately for the faithful, virtually all of which contradicts the "truths" laid out by the monotheistic religions in their texts and gatherings.

+1. What matters is that someone is a good person and treats themselves and others with respect. I actually think this discussion has been pretty reasonable and respectful (troll posts aside) of the faithful as represented by DubProof and that he's done a good job of defending his faith without resorting to the types of judgemental "you're all going to burn in hell" responses that I've run into when questioning the faithful in the past. I have the feeling that despite our differences in how we understand the big questions, we'd get along just fine. I can't say the same for many other believers that I've met over the years.

Personally, I have some training in the scientific method (B.Sc., the high school diploma of the '90s) and am convinced that it is the best way we have so far of understanding the world around us. I've searched for meaning in human existence, and basically came to the conclusion that existence is basically infinite and therefore we, as humans are irrelevant, except to the extent that which we experience the world around us. Since the things that I can perceive (via. observation and study of science) are so fascinating and beautiful I don't really have much interest in truths that are presented to me with the argument that "I (or god) said so therefore it's true". I do have faith (!) however that those using the scientific method to pursue the big questions (creation of the universe, the nature of matter, our history on the plantet, the origins of life etc.) are getting a good understanding of reality and truth, and unfortunately for the faithful, virtually all of which contradicts the "truths" laid out by the monotheistic religions in their texts and gatherings.

yes indeed, great summary of my general life perspective as well. no one gets out alive, lets at least try and enjoy each others company along the way towards our ends.

So now that we have torn the Christians a new one,who has the balls to go after,oh let's say, Native Americans and their silly spirits,reincarnation and fairy tales about ravens,the moon and pheonixes and such?

I elect XXXer

at least they aint radical about it.. there's no "watchtower" of the first nations is there? - and if christianity was simply about spirit - which it isnt - then it would be much more tolerated - but when you get idiots like WestBrook (or whatever that whaco church is) acting under the name of christianity - it sort of draws the ire of normal folk -

Do you know what would suck?

Imagine a group of people, who did not hold belief in [HTML_REMOVED]diety x[HTML_REMOVED], barged into a church where people were discussing their belief of [HTML_REMOVED]diety x[HTML_REMOVED]. They then tried to berate, belittle and ultimately try and shake their belief in [HTML_REMOVED]diety x[HTML_REMOVED].

That would be a douche move.

Know what also sucks?

Going to an online form, saying "X is Y" and then going ape-shit when people want to discuss why you think x is y.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dW-bt_1LzY

how the F do you embed?