Cycling BC

So I made my upgrade request to move up to Cat 3 from 4. I'm 3 points short, and admittedly I kinda sandbagged it near the end of the year in the cat 3/4 crits to help out a couple of teammates that were in Cat 3 and didn't place as well as I could have. Cycling BC didn't give me the manual upgrade. I'm not sure if I'm bummed about the no upgrade or the fact I will be taking a spot away from someone that could use the points to upgrade themselves. At the beginning of the year I really felt bad about the pace that we were setting in the Cat 4/5 race Harris Roubiax. I feel the level of racing that beginners are being subjected to, in their first race is too hard and too fast. I believe it is hurting racing enrollment.

Do any of you race in the Cat 4/5 level and what do you think.

ya i race in cat 4/5, didnt get much racing in this year, but i did find it that people just go balls out all the time tryign to prove themselves or soemthing, in the higher cats they seem to chill out a lot more, .

sandbagging is widespread though.

EV is doing a good job with the novice cats at certain races and they should have more of those, casue you pretty much need a few yrs fitness before being able to keep up in 4/5, id say it can be off putting.

Sucks that you didn't get your upgrade, but I'm sure you'll be upgraded within the first couple races of 2009.

I race 4/5 too, and yes, the pace at Harris Roubaix this year was an eye-opener for me … a total 'nother level vs. what I experienced during the spring series and the tuesday nighters the year before. Unfortunately, I didn't race much road in '08, but I plan to make it my focus for '09, so I am dedicated to making advancements (ie. train more and be more focussed). While I agree the pace is fast (at least at H-R), it wasn't really a factor in me racing road less in '08 … I just had too many other races to attend and ended up spreading myself too thin.

Looking forward to getting back on the bike and starting my long recovery from surgery … just be kind to us slow dudes at the back for the first couple laps :)

I thought this was the annual winter "I hate" my provincial Cycling Assoc thread.

Looking forward to getting back on the bike and starting my long recovery from surgery …

I hope it wasn't serious. Good luck with the recovery.

I thought this was the annual winter "I hate" my provincial Cycling Assoc thread.

I hope I'm not coming across as bashing CBC cause I'm not. I'm just bringing up a point, that having a bunch of fast riders stuck in a beginner Cat, isn't really a good thing.

I race 4/5 too, and yes, the pace at Harris Roubaix this year was an eye-opener for me … a total 'nother level vs. what I experienced during the spring series and the tuesday nighters the year before. Unfortunately, I didn't race much road in '08, but I plan to make it my focus for '09, so I am dedicated to making advancements (ie. train more and be more focussed). While I agree the pace is fast (at least at H-R), it wasn't really a factor in me racing road less in '08 … I just had too many other races to attend and ended up spreading myself too thin.

Looking forward to getting back on the bike and starting my long recovery from surgery … just be kind to us slow dudes at the back for the first couple laps :)

Well I can't promise you anything, but the second lap be near the front at the end of the dike, cause the bus will be leaving.

Heal up brother!

No pun intended, but I think that upgrade request was a classy move, and encourage other Cat4 podium riders to ask CBC for the same regardless of their upgrade points. I mean, if upgrade points were the only way, just one guy (TZ) would have made the leap to Cat3. I'm also pointing the blame squarely on CBC for the state of racing for newcomers in BC

It's very clear to anyone who's raced to local series or helped administer those races that there's a huge log-jam of riders that really should be up in Cat3 for their benefit and for keeping the sport accessible for new blood. My sense is few of these strong riders want to sandbag and the vast majority would welcome the upgrade.

'08 Roubaix is a great example - the guys in the 4/5 break would not only hold on in Cat3, they'd challenge the pack! Same goes for the Yaletown GP.

I wish I had more experience racing in other provinces/states to know if we're an odd-ball this way, or if this is par for the course.

Having just done a first year of racing, the curve is steep and BC Cups are demoralizing thanks to CBC decisions. The enrollment at races is declining as evidenced by cancelled races - you'd think CBC would be doing all the welcome new blood.

PS Ninja - just race Kelowna stage race, ok? You'd have your 3pts already if you'd been there…

No pun intended, but I think that upgrade request was a classy move, and encourage other Cat4 podium riders to ask CBC for the same regardless of their upgrade points. I mean, if upgrade points were the only way, just one guy (TZ) would have made the leap to Cat3. I'm also pointing the blame squarely on CBC for the state of racing for newcomers in BC

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'08 Roubaix is a great example - the guys in the 4/5 break would not only hold on in Cat3, they'd challenge the pack! Same goes for the Yaletown GP.

Nick Berry upgraded this year to Cat3 but not sure if he did it on points or not.

As for H-R … the winner in the Cat4/5 race was racing Elite at the end of the season and there's no way he upgraded on points alone.

H-R results http://www.atomicracing.com/atomic/harris-roubaix-2008/Cat_4_5_men_results.pdf

White Rock road race http://www.velonews.com/results/80533

Nick Berry upgraded this year to Cat3 but not sure if he did it on points or not.

As for H-R … the winner in the Cat4/5 race was racing Elite at the end of the season and there's no way he upgraded on points alone.

H-R results http://www.atomicracing.com/atomic/harris-roubaix-2008/Cat_4_5_men_results.pdf

White Rock road race http://www.velonews.com/results/80533

A bunch of people upgraded from Cat 4 this year Nick was one. ( he beat me in Harris and the Westside classic) Curtis ( beat me and nick at Harris, then at one of the Coastal races, by the end of the year this guy was in Cat1/2 two spots behind Chris Horner on the Whiterock hill climb!!! and one of the only locals to stay with the pack in the road race. Symetric racers don't count.) He had to fight tooth and nail with CBC to upgrade faster. Racing against people like him is and was kinda demoralizing. I knew at Harris Roubaix I was racing for second place, cus I had the unfortunate position of being on his wheel, and when he would pull through on the front, and gap me by jumping 3 to 4 km/h faster each time. He single handedly rode everyone in the breakaway into the ground.

Mike Sidic shot through the ranks and ended up in Cat1/2 by the end of the year! Ted from EV had a strong showing at Kelowna and made the leap. And there were a few others that made the jump up to cat 3 but most of their points came from last year. ( upgrade points are carried for 2 years)
In the mean time, with only a few upgrade races available, and having to compete against the likes of Mike, Curtis, and Nick ( F'ing fast ) you have people like me who are fighting for leftover scraps. I was fast all year, worked for teammates, got a few podium spots and didn't make enough points to make the jump up. Now come next year ( all things being the same, training, etc etc, and the fact that this is an endurance based sport. I will be faster next year) I still have to start with the Cat 4/5's. I don't see one benefit to having me racing with beginners, I'm not going to be teaching them anything. And the true beginners will only suffer. There's not much incentive to race when the first upgrade points race of the year, will be over halfway through the first lap for most beginners.

I'm missing something CBC! Want to clue us in….

PS Ninja - just race Kelowna stage race, ok? You'd have your 3pts already if you'd been there…

Well I had to start training for Cross…… by running into cars.

Kelowna is a coulda woulda shoulda. And it just wasn't in the budget as well.

I hope racing goes better for you next year.

I have never raced road but have done a ton of xc over many years and there were certainly similar issues there. I struggled as the oldest in my age category but when I bumped up into a new age category, I really felt like podiums came pretty easy. While it was nice being on podiums, I knew I wasn't working nearly as hard to get those as the mid-pack placings of the year before. I don't know if there is an easy answer. I know that I did keep track of how I placed relative to other riders that I knew from riding around the province and that did help to keep mid-pack placings in perspective.

A bunch of people upgraded from Cat 4 this year Nick was one. ( he beat me in Harris and the Westside classic) Curtis ( beat me and nick at Harris, then at one of the Coastal races, by the end of the year this guy was in Cat1/2 two spots behind Chris Horner on the Whiterock hill climb!!! and one of the only locals to stay with the pack in the road race. Symetric racers don't count.) He had to fight tooth and nail with CBC to upgrade faster. Racing against people like him is and was kinda demoralizing. I knew at Harris Roubaix I was racing for second place, cus I had the unfortunate position of being on his wheel, and when he would pull through on the front, and gap me by jumping 3 to 4 km/h faster each time. He single handedly rode everyone in the breakaway into the ground.

Mike Sidic shot through the ranks and ended up in Cat1/2 by the end of the year! Ted from EV had a strong showing at Kelowna and made the leap. And there were a few others that made the jump up to cat 3 but most of their points came from last year. ( upgrade points are carried for 2 years)
In the mean time, with only a few upgrade races available, and having to compete against the likes of Mike, Curtis, and Nick ( F'ing fast ) you have people like me who are fighting for leftover scraps. I was fast all year, worked for teammates, got a few podium spots and didn't make enough points to make the jump up. Now come next year ( all things being the same, training, etc etc, and the fact that this is an endurance based sport. I will be faster next year) I still have to start with the Cat 4/5's. I don't see one benefit to having me racing with beginners, I'm not going to be teaching them anything. And the true beginners will only suffer. There's not much incentive to race when the first upgrade points race of the year, will be over halfway through the first lap for most beginners.

I'm missing something CBC! Want to clue us in….

What made this season's successes a truly superhuman achievement for Baby-T and Nick was the fact that they did it while couriering full-time at Novex and Phantom. Mike was racking up 8 hours of base miles a day before going home and kitting up for his actual "training" regimen. They're going to be downright fearsome in 2009 now that they, you know, take actual rest days and stuff.

If Cycling BC gave a shit about sandbagging, Morgan Taylor should have been kicked out of Open Beginner after his second cross race. He'll end up nipping at Nick's heels in the A's next season for sure.

What made this season's successes a truly superhuman achievement for Baby-T and Nick was the fact that they did it while couriering full-time at Novex and Phantom. Mike was racking up 8 hours of base miles a day before going home and kitting up for his actual "training" regimen. They're going to be downright fearsome in 2009 now that they, you know, take actual rest days and stuff.

If Cycling BC gave a shit about sandbagging, Morgan Taylor should have been kicked out of Open Beginner after his second cross race. He'll end up nipping at Nick's heels in the A's next season for sure.

Agree'd

Nick was fast before he became a courier, now he's really fast. too bad he doesn't have a team……