You win, you get tested, 3 or 6 month window for disputes, after that it stands. I think it's BS that they can go back that far.
Armstrong stripped of titles (Merged Lance threads)
Boring!
I can't believe we are still talking about this, it has been going on for way too long with no results. We are all pretty sure of the truth, but if you go to these lengths to "get" somebody, you have to go to the same lengths to prove the guy you hand the titles to is actually clean. Otherwise, you are just wasting everybody's time.USADA needs to move on, catch people who are actually still competing, be involved in cleaning up sports in general, not chasing one guy who has retired already.
Almost all of the 2nd and 3rd place guys in the tours Armstrong won have been implicated or busted for doping.
Found this on MTBR:
From Ocanada.com
PARIS The cyclists Lance Armstrong beat to win his seven Tour de France victories may soon get a chance at his titles. But their ranks include men who have faced a tangle of doping bans and accusations, possibly presenting a headache for Tour leadership.
Heres a look at who else was on the podium in the seven Tours that Armstrong won from 1999-2005:
1999
No. 2 : Alex Zulle, Switzerland. His 1998 team, Festina, was ousted from the Tour that year in connection with the widespread use of the performance-enhancing drug EPO. Zulle later admitted to using the blood-booster over the four previous years. The Festina affair nearly derailed the 1998 Tour, and is widely seen as the first big doping scandal to jolt cycling.
No. 3: Fernando Escartin, Spain.
2000
No 2: Jan Ullrich, Germany. The 1997 Tour winner, a five-time Tour runner-up and longtime Armstrong rival. He was the top-name cyclist among at least 50 implicated in the Operation Puerto police investigation in Spain in May 2006. Ullrich was stripped of his third-place finish from the 2005 Tour and retired from racing two years later. Earlier this year, he confirmed that he had had contact with Eufemiano Fuentes, a Spanish doctor at the centre of that scandal, calling it a big mistake but did not admit to doping.
No. 3: Joseba Beloki, Spain. Implicated in Operation Puerto, he retired in 2007. He was reportedly was cleared by a Spanish court of any involvement in the case.
2001
No 2: Ullrich.
No. 3: Beloki.
2002
No. 2: Beloki.
No. 3: Raimondas Rumsas, Lithuania. On the last day of the 2002 Tour, police stopped his wife, Edita, at the Italian border and searched her car, turning up suspected doping products. A French court later handed them four-month prison sentences on doping-related charges. The cyclist denied taking banned substances at that event, and all his tests came back negative. He said the products in his wifes car were for his mother-in-law. The next year, he was given a one-year ban after testing positive for EPO in the 2003 Giro dItalia.
2003
No. 2: Ullrich.
No. 3: Alexandre Vinokourov, Kazakhstan. He later served a two-year doping suspension after twice testing positive for banned blood transfusions during the 2007 race. He won the Olympic road race in London last month and has announced plans to retire.
2004
No. 2: Andreas Kloeden, Germany.
No. 3: Ivan Basso, Italy. Excluded from the 2006 Tour because of his involvement in Operation Puerto. He claimed that he gave his blood to Fuentes the Spanish doctor at the centre of that scandal but never used it. Later that year, Basso received a two-year doping ban; he later returned, and won his second Giro dItalia in 2010.
2005
No. 2: Basso.
No. 3: Ullrich.
Almost all of the 2nd and 3rd place guys in the tours Armstrong won have been implicated or busted for doping.
Found this on MTBR:
From Ocanada.com
PARIS The cyclists Lance Armstrong beat to win his seven Tour de France victories may soon get a chance at his titles. But their ranks include men who have faced a tangle of doping bans and accusations, possibly presenting a headache for Tour leadership.Heres a look at who else was on the podium in the seven Tours that Armstrong won from 1999-2005:
1999
No. 2 : Alex Zulle, Switzerland. His 1998 team, Festina, was ousted from the Tour that year in connection with the widespread use of the performance-enhancing drug EPO. Zulle later admitted to using the blood-booster over the four previous years. The Festina affair nearly derailed the 1998 Tour, and is widely seen as the first big doping scandal to jolt cycling.
No. 3: Fernando Escartin, Spain.
2000
No 2: Jan Ullrich, Germany. The 1997 Tour winner, a five-time Tour runner-up and longtime Armstrong rival. He was the top-name cyclist among at least 50 implicated in the Operation Puerto police investigation in Spain in May 2006. Ullrich was stripped of his third-place finish from the 2005 Tour and retired from racing two years later. Earlier this year, he confirmed that he had had contact with Eufemiano Fuentes, a Spanish doctor at the centre of that scandal, calling it a big mistake but did not admit to doping.
No. 3: Joseba Beloki, Spain. Implicated in Operation Puerto, he retired in 2007. He was reportedly was cleared by a Spanish court of any involvement in the case.
2001
No 2: Ullrich.
No. 3: Beloki.
2002
No. 2: Beloki.
No. 3: Raimondas Rumsas, Lithuania. On the last day of the 2002 Tour, police stopped his wife, Edita, at the Italian border and searched her car, turning up suspected doping products. A French court later handed them four-month prison sentences on doping-related charges. The cyclist denied taking banned substances at that event, and all his tests came back negative. He said the products in his wifes car were for his mother-in-law. The next year, he was given a one-year ban after testing positive for EPO in the 2003 Giro dItalia.
2003
No. 2: Ullrich.
No. 3: Alexandre Vinokourov, Kazakhstan. He later served a two-year doping suspension after twice testing positive for banned blood transfusions during the 2007 race. He won the Olympic road race in London last month and has announced plans to retire.
2004
No. 2: Andreas Kloeden, Germany.
No. 3: Ivan Basso, Italy. Excluded from the 2006 Tour because of his involvement in Operation Puerto. He claimed that he gave his blood to Fuentes the Spanish doctor at the centre of that scandal but never used it. Later that year, Basso received a two-year doping ban; he later returned, and won his second Giro dItalia in 2010.
2005
No. 2: Basso.
No. 3: Ullrich.
shouldve got the chemist lance had…
I cant stand Lance. I think that the USDA are doing the right thing in keeping after him.
This was the easiest way for him to get out of the charges and he still gets to be a hero for millions.
I can see going after athletes long after the event.
I am no scientisty person - but if a new test or technology arises that lets us find evidence of doping- why not go back and test samples.
The way I see it the dopers will always be a step ahead of those trying to catch them. It would act as a deterent to know that yes I can beat the test today but eventually they may be able to catch me.
So your saying if you were found innocent, you would be cool being dragged back into court time and time again because someone feels they have the means to find you guilty "this" time. Wow I find it hard to believe anyone would be cool with that. Fine and dandy getting tested when you race, but at some time it has to be enough is enough. I've heard Lance has pissed in a bottle more than 500 times in his career…… I have to piss in a bottle once a year and I can't say it's my favorite thing to do.
. I've heard Lance has pissed in a bottle more than 500 times in his career…… I have to piss in a bottle once a year and I can't say it's my favorite thing to do.
I read an article looking into this legend of 500 tests. The real number is somewhere around 200. I wish I could remember where so I could post the link.
Really doesnt matter. The point I'm saying is how many times should someone get the chance to try and prove another is guilty?
How can you know the old samples have not been tampered with? Re-testing samples from over 10 years ago?
I say good on Lance for saying enough is enough. All he should ever have to do is submit to post race testing. Pee in the bottle, take the pin prick of blood.
If the USADA really has concrete evidence of samples that now test positive then they can go public with the evidence.
Almost all of the 2nd and 3rd place guys in the tours Armstrong won have been implicated or busted for doping.
So what's left, give the titles to the mechanics? They are likely the only ones in the sport not doing it.
Once again the Badger pretty much says it all:
Another French cycling celebrity, Bernard Hinault, gave his very personal view: "I don't f***ing care. It's his problem not mine. It's a problem that should have been solved 10 or 15 years ago and that wasn't."
"The song of a bird…We used to ask Ennesson to do bird calls. He could do them. How he could do them, and when he perished, along with him went all those birds…"-Return from the Stars, Stanislaw Lem
"We just walk around, and sometimes we go out and dance, and then we listen to the environment."-Ralf Hutter, Kraftwerk
You win, you get tested, 3 or 6 month window for disputes, after that it stands. I think it's BS that they can go back that far.
why? if the dopers have an advantage in undetected drugs, the samples should always be retested after a few years when the detection is up to date…
So what's left, give the titles to the mechanics? They are likely the only ones in the sport not doing it.
IMO…no official winner for those years.
why? if the dopers have an advantage in undetected drugs, the samples should always be retested after a few years when the detection is up to date…
I find it hard to believe you would be ok with getting retested time after time and/ or going to court and/or dealing with the media about something you were proved not guilty of the first time around.
I know I could honestly say I wouldn't be ok with it.
I just wish they would get it over with and focus on current doping. I'll use the situation that Alberto Contador was able to continue racing, therefore obtaining the training benefit of racing, for most of his 2 year ban as an example.
Forum jump:
